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Miscellaneous => Polls => Topic started by: BOG on May 09, 2009, 06:06:46 PM

Title: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 09, 2009, 06:06:46 PM
Why has OBAMA spent almost a million dollars to keep his long form birth certificate and college admissions records hidden instead of spending less than $50 dollars to have them released?

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Jointdoc55 on May 09, 2009, 09:39:13 PM
Quote from: "BOG"
Why has OBAMA spent almost a million dollars to keep his long form birth certificate and college admissions records hidden instead of spending less than $50 dollars to have them released?

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?

I agree with you. However the question never really resonated with the majority of voters. They didn't care. They wanted change.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012 on May 10, 2009, 05:32:27 PM
I don't like the guy either, but seriously BOG, this birth certificate stuff is getting old. There are much better reasons to criticize him.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 10, 2009, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
I don't like the guy either, but seriously BOG, this birth certificate stuff is getting old. There are much better reasons to criticize him.

It is getting old simply since Obama has never provided the info. This issue is still simmering and it will effect his entire presidency.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 10, 2009, 07:18:11 PM
Quote from: "Jointdoc55"
Quote from: "BOG"
Why has OBAMA spent almost a million dollars to keep his long form birth certificate and college admissions records hidden instead of spending less than $50 dollars to have them released?

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?

I agree with you. However the question never really resonated with the majority of voters. They didn't care. They wanted change.

A Chicago politician was elected who'd never been responsible for ANY change in Illinois I know of.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 10, 2009, 07:20:09 PM
Quote from: "Jointdoc55"
Quote from: "BOG"
Why has OBAMA spent almost a million dollars to keep his long form birth certificate and college admissions records hidden instead of spending less than $50 dollars to have them released?

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?

I agree with you. However the question never really resonated with the majority of voters. They didn't care. They wanted change.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Cougar1 on May 11, 2009, 08:20:49 AM
Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Jimmy the Gent on May 11, 2009, 12:25:30 PM
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
I don't like the guy either, but seriously BOG, this birth certificate stuff is getting old. There are much better reasons to criticize him.

It is getting old simply since Obama has never provided the info. This issue is still simmering and it will effect his entire presidency.

This issue will only effect his entire presidency in the minds of guys like you.  Obviously not many people care.  People will not join your teenie-tiny minority's bandwagon.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 11, 2009, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: "Jimmy the Gent"
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
I don't like the guy either, but seriously BOG, this birth certificate stuff is getting old. There are much better reasons to criticize him.

It is getting old simply since Obama has never provided the info. This issue is still simmering and it will effect his entire presidency.

JIMMY: This issue will only effect his entire presidency in the minds of guys like you.  Obviously not many people care.  People will not join your teenie-tiny minority's bandwagon.

That's Ok if you want to give him a pass.Some folks will continue to actually care about the constituition. If they're such a minority them this country is really in pitiful shape.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on May 12, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
The moral standard of our country has eroded to the extent that personal integrity is meaningless.  Everything is only about "me".
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 12, 2009, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: "ctc"
The moral standard of our country has eroded to the extent that personal integrity is meaningless.  Everything is only about "me".

This entire controversy reeks of Obama's narcissism
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: LoSt on May 17, 2009, 08:45:45 PM
its people like BOG that make me question that sanity of conservatives...

Give it a freaking break already.  If you dont like the guy thats fine, but at least pretend like you have some valid reasons.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 17, 2009, 10:29:32 PM
Quote from: "LoSt"
its people like BOG that make me question that sanity of conservatives...

Give it a freaking break already.  If you dont like the guy thats fine, but at least pretend like you have some valid reasons.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com ... rtificate/ (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/05/05/the-obama-birth-certificate/) You are obviously an OBAMA supporter. McCain was threatened with a court case and provided his long form birth certificate quickly in response. Obama provided a COLB which has been declared to be fake by many experts and has fought in many different courts to avoid providing his long form birth certificate as McCain did. I just find it very curious.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012 on May 17, 2009, 10:38:47 PM
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "LoSt"
its people like BOG that make me question that sanity of conservatives...

Give it a freaking break already.  If you dont like the guy thats fine, but at least pretend like you have some valid reasons.

You are obviously an OBAMA supporter. McCain was threatened with a court case and provided his long form birth certificate quickly in response. Obama provided a COLB which has been declared to be fake by many experts and has fought in many different courts to avoid providing his long form birth certificate as McCain did. I just find it very curious.

BOG, you are not advancing the conservative cause by your posts. There are good reasons to criticize Obama, like his outrageous spending and his position on abortion. Going after the guy because of his birth certificate gives you zero credibility. No wonder why conservatism is so weak today: because conservatives with the least credibility and least intelligence are speaking the loudest, and that gives the media a ticket to paint all of us as people like you. If you think your posts are helping conservatives, then you really are clueless and hopeless.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 17, 2009, 10:52:11 PM
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "LoSt"
its people like BOG that make me question that sanity of conservatives...

Give it a freaking break already.  If you dont like the guy thats fine, but at least pretend like you have some valid reasons.

You are obviously an OBAMA supporter. McCain was threatened with a court case and provided his long form birth certificate quickly in response. Obama provided a COLB which has been declared to be fake by many experts and has fought in many different courts to avoid providing his long form birth certificate as McCain did. I just find it very curious.

BOG, you are not advancing the conservative cause by your posts. There are good reasons to criticize Obama, like his outrageous spending and his position on abortion. Going after the guy because of his birth certificate gives you zero credibility. No wonder why conservatism is so weak today: because conservatives with the least credibility and least intelligence are speaking the loudest, and that gives the media a ticket to paint all of us as people like you. If you think your posts are helping conservatives, then you really are clueless and hopeless.
 So I guess you want to give him a pass like Jimmy. Some other folks actually care about the constitution. http://www.intellectualconservative.com ... rtificate/ (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/05/05/the-obama-birth-certificate/)
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: LoSt on May 17, 2009, 11:05:03 PM
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "LoSt"
its people like BOG that make me question that sanity of conservatives...

Give it a freaking break already.  If you dont like the guy thats fine, but at least pretend like you have some valid reasons.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com ... rtificate/ (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/05/05/the-obama-birth-certificate/) You are obviously an OBAMA supporter. McCain was threatened with a court case and provided his long form birth certificate quickly in response. Obama provided a COLB which has been declared to be fake by many experts and has fought in many different courts to avoid providing his long form birth certificate as McCain did. I just find it very curious.

dude... you are a nutjob plain and simple.  Even the other conservatives on the board are calling you out on it.

The fact that people like you can vote makes me question the principles of democracy.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 17, 2009, 11:17:28 PM
Quote from: "LoSt"
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "LoSt"
its people like BOG that make me question that sanity of conservatives...

Give it a freaking break already.  If you dont like the guy thats fine, but at least pretend like you have some valid reasons.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com ... rtificate/ (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/05/05/the-obama-birth-certificate/) You are obviously an OBAMA supporter. McCain was threatened with a court case and provided his long form birth certificate quickly in response. Obama provided a COLB which has been declared to be fake by many experts and has fought in many different courts to avoid providing his long form birth certificate as McCain did. I just find it very curious.

dude... you are a nutjob plain and simple.  Even the other conservatives on the board are calling you out on it.

The fact that people like you can vote makes me question the principles of democracy.
http://www.fightthesmears.com.php5-9.we ... ges/28.jpg (http://www.fightthesmears.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/images/28.jpg) The COLB on this website states Obama's place of birth as Hawaii, but is also says at the bottom, "any alterations invalidate this certificate" and at the top right, the certificate number is blacked out. This officially invalidates the document and you or I could not use this to get a driver's license .Obama needs to provide his vault birth certificate to satisfy his critics and end the lawsuits being filed. All your name calling won't change this.



Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
 
YES   11%  [ 2 ]
NO   89%  [ 16 ] x
 
Total votes : 18
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: LoSt on May 17, 2009, 11:45:39 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... e-part-ii/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/)

This illness can only be cured by a healthy dose of non-partisian common sense.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on May 18, 2009, 10:37:56 PM
Quote from: "LoSt"
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

This illness can only be cured by a healthy dose of non-partisian common sense.
Apparently 16 out of 18 are "ill" too.   :oops:
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 18, 2009, 11:06:18 PM
Quote from: "ctc"
Quote from: "LoSt"
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

This illness can only be cured by a healthy dose of non-partisian common sense.
Apparently 16 out of 18 are "ill" too.   :oops:

Lost believes he is displaying common sense . His screen name really fits.   :lol:
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on May 24, 2009, 08:57:48 AM
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "ctc"
Quote from: "LoSt"
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

This illness can only be cured by a healthy dose of non-partisian common sense.
Apparently 16 out of 18 are "ill" too.   :oops:

Lost believes he is displaying common sense . His screen name really fits.   :lol:
It really saddens me that our country has grown so corrupt and apathetic that it cannot and will not throughly research and determine one's background and right to be president.  As I have said for years now, we are headed down the toilet bowl.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 26, 2009, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
Yeah, bog you are absolutely right, President Obama is not a natural born citizen and he pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.
 I actually just think it's weird he hasn't simply provided a vault birth certificate. I don't know if he's a natural born citizen or not as a result.It's bizarre and this issue just keeps festering.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: LoSt on May 28, 2009, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: "BOG"
Quote from: "152lbs"
Yeah, bog you are absolutely right, President Obama is not a natural born citizen and he pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.
 I actually just think it's weird he hasn't simply provided a vault birth certificate. I don't know if he's a natural born citizen or not as a result.It's bizarre and this issue just keeps festering.

only for crank jobs like you...
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: buck on May 29, 2009, 10:56:57 AM
Since he was born in Kenya this disqualifies him to be President.  His election should be declared null and void and we should have another chance to elect John McCain and Sarah Palin.  Everyone knows the country would be much better off if and when this happens.  Or perhaps New Gingrich can be drafted to save the country.  Either way let's not let this issue rest because the future of our nation is at stake.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 30, 2009, 11:52:07 AM
Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
 
YES   14%  [ 3 ]
NO   86%  [ 18 ] x
 
Total votes : 21
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on May 30, 2009, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: "buck"
Since he was born in Kenya this disqualifies him to be President.  His election should be declared null and void and we should have another chance to elect John McCain and Sarah Palin.  Everyone knows the country would be much better off if and when this happens.  Or perhaps New Gingrich can be drafted to save the country.  Either way let's not let this issue rest because the future of our nation is at stake.

For once in your life you're right. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 30, 2009, 02:07:10 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
your poll means nothing......

You're in the minority on this forum at least. Maybe we should rename this forum  "THE TINFOIL HAT SOCIETY." Of course since you're also a member  maybe you should just cease the name calling. Obama's actions are impossible to rationally defend IMHO so *I believe your only available recourse is to resort to insults". Actions like this just demonstrate that you don't have a rational point of view that you can defend.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on May 30, 2009, 02:15:37 PM
For the life of me I cant figure out why he WOULDNT ask for the vault original to be released. So I do think there are legitimate questions about BHO's nativity. But NOTHING will ever come of it. I repeat NOTHING. At least not while he is President.


It would be an interesting Constitutional issue (if not crisis) though if it WAS revealed that he was NOT an native born American. Would/could a judge rule the election void? Would there be an impeachment hearing?
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 30, 2009, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
For the life of me I cant figure out why he WOULDNT ask for the vault original to be released. So I do think there are legitimate questions about BHO's nativity. But NOTHING will ever come of it. I repeat NOTHING. At least not while he is President.


It would be an interesting Constitutional issue (if not crisis) though if it WAS revealed that he was NOT an native born American. Would/could a judge rule the election void? Would there be an impeachment hearing?
Swartzenegger's supporters researched this issue at one time. Swartzenegger has never ran for president as a result. What if Obama just thought the  same rules which deterred Swartzenegger simply don't apply to "THE ONE". It's also interesting that McCain swiftly provided his vault birth certificate when he was challenged without any of Obama's legal obfuscations. I actually think Obama is a native born USA citizen but he doesn't want the general public to become aware of something documented by his birth certificate for some strange reason.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on May 30, 2009, 10:52:40 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
A birth certificate has already been examined and it was adequate to satisfy the powers that be.    The mere fact that you aren't satisfied or that 18 members on a wrestling forum aren't satisfied is pretty insignificant.
Many folks believe the COLB on FIGHT THE SMEARS to be a forgery. It's also not what was asked for by Obama's critics. The COLB is also blacked out in parts which invalidates it.You should actually look at the COLB and read the words at the bottom of it.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 01, 2009, 08:18:24 AM
A birth certificate has already been examined and it was adequate to satisfy the powers that be.

We live in a very corrupt, godless society.  Integrity is virtually void.  Had this been Bush, you would have a different tune.

The mere fact that you aren't satisfied or that 18 members on a wrestling forum aren't satisfied is pretty insignificant.

18 out of 21 on a national wrestling forum would definately be an eye-opening indicator that things are not right.  I would imagine that the percentage of intelligent and informed Americans would want this answered too.  The ignorant and uninformed will be happy with watching "Dancing With the Stars".
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 01, 2009, 10:48:03 AM
Quote from: "152lbs"
A birth certificate has already been examined and it was adequate to satisfy the powers that be.    The mere fact that you aren't satisfied or that 18 members on a wrestling forum aren't satisfied is pretty insignificant.
There is serious question that the BC that you refer to is at odds with the vault copy (the TRUE original). BHO could end ALL of this if he would demand that it be released. He wont. Hence the controversy.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: buck on June 01, 2009, 12:41:16 PM
For once in your life you're right. Congratulations.
 
- I always stretch to live in the most expensive home possible and sometimes question my sanity, then I quickly remember the primary reason is to insulate myself from conservative dopes like yourself.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 01, 2009, 12:44:41 PM
Quote from: "buck"
For once in your life you're right. Congratulations.
 
- I always stretch to live in the most expensive home possible and sometimes question my sanity, then I quickly remember the primary reason is to insulate myself from conservative dopes like yourself.

Thanks for your Sparkyesque response. Next time try addressing the topic. Your ad hominum attack exposes your inability to refute the argument.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: buck on June 01, 2009, 12:52:48 PM
Well I certainly hope Barack was born in the US, if not, then the possibility that he could be removed from office saddens me greatly.  That's all I have to say on this subject.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: LoSt on June 01, 2009, 03:18:25 PM
The bottom line is that people will believe what they want to believe.  For Barrack to not be a natural born citizen basically you are alleging that a massive governmental conspiracy has undermined the entire fabric of our government and society, and completely taken over our media.

If you are going that far then why stop there?  Maybe the leaders of the world are really alien clones controlled by evil overlords in a galaxy far far away.  We can't prove that they arent without extensive genetic testing, so its a possibility, and equally worthy of discussion in my opinion.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 02, 2009, 09:38:00 AM
He isn't revealing the so called vault copy of his birth certificate probably because he doesn't want to lend any credibility to such a preposterous notion that he isn't a natural born US citizen. - 152

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   "Oceanside property in Arizona"
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 02, 2009, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: "LoSt"
The bottom line is that people will believe what they want to believe.  For Barrack to not be a natural born citizen basically you are alleging that a massive governmental conspiracy has undermined the entire fabric of our government and society, and completely taken over our media.

If you are going that far then why stop there?  Maybe the leaders of the world are really alien clones controlled by evil overlords in a galaxy far far away.  We can't prove that they arent without extensive genetic testing, so its a possibility, and equally worthy of discussion in my opinion.
No "national conspiracy" is required at all. Only a candidate/President who wants is squelched, a bureaucrat in public records and a complicit Governor of Hawaii. Thats hardly a national conspiracy.

As to the the media being "taken over" I'll let the facts speak for themselves.  :lol:
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 06, 2009, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "LoSt"
The bottom line is that people will believe what they want to believe.  For Barrack to not be a natural born citizen basically you are alleging that a massive governmental conspiracy has undermined the entire fabric of our government and society, and completely taken over our media.

If you are going that far then why stop there?  Maybe the leaders of the world are really alien clones controlled by evil overlords in a galaxy far far away.  We can't prove that they arent without extensive genetic testing, so its a possibility, and equally worthy of discussion in my opinion.
No "national conspiracy" is required at all. Only a candidate/President who wants is squelched, a bureaucrat in public records and a complicit Governor of Hawaii. Thats hardly a national conspiracy.

As to the the media being "taken over" I'll let the facts speak for themselves.  :lol:
MSM was completely biased during the last election and everyone knows it. The media's role is to be unbiased and not to pursue it's own agenda. MSM is hastening it's own demise by it's partisanship.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: sgallan on June 07, 2009, 12:01:08 PM
BOG, ctc, Vice..... the election is over, Obama won, and the Democratic party sweept pretty much everything. They will probably continue to do so as long as a fairly large portion of Republicans continues to focus on sill things.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 07, 2009, 02:17:50 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
They are under the delusion that there is a real issue here and that something will be done about it if a stupid little poll is listed in a wrestling forum.
Exactly, you got it all figured out.   :roll:
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 07, 2009, 02:31:06 PM
MSM displayed it's partisanship by the manner it virtually ignored the B/C issue,Obama's actual track record in ILLINOIS and his connections to Ayers and Wright. MSM decided to concentrate on whether Joe the Plumber had  paid his taxes or how much Palin had spent on clothing. Any non MSM new media investigation of Obama was simply described as rascist fear mongering by MSM. MSM koolaid drinkers like 152 and sgallan  just want anyone who criticizes Obama to cease any criticism whatsoever of their cherished OBAMALOT. They like the new status quo and believe electing the leftist oriented Obama and increasing the power of the state will provide the panacea for all current problems. What they see as the solution is actually what created the current problems imho. Eventually this  will become evident even to the most diehard koolaid drinkers  and no rational person will have any faith in anything MSM promotes. I don't believe that every Obama critic should just suffer quietly until then however to satisfy the easily duped koolaid drinkers.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 07, 2009, 03:09:08 PM
Many of those koolaid drinkers are beginning to wise up.  They got taken in by the glamour and pomp of "Change".  Now that disaster is immenent, they are seeing their own poor judgment.  We will never fully recover.  The debt is too massive and growing quickly (I even heard yesterday that a new stimilus plan is in the works).  Yikes!!!
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 07, 2009, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
The only kool aid drinkers around here are you two douchebags.
When void of knowledge and wisdom, revert to a pottymouthed 3 year old.  Nice comeback, Ace.   :D
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 07, 2009, 04:06:46 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
I am merely calling a spade a spade.  You and bog have exactly zero credibility and holding onto this fantasy is bordering on psychosis.
From liberal debate tactics -
2. DEMONIZE YOUR OPPONENT. Attempt to cover them with shame, the same way you would a 4 year old that touches his pee-pee.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 07, 2009, 04:10:57 PM
Quote from: "ctc"
Quote from: "152lbs"
I am merely calling a spade a spade.  You and bog have exactly zero credibility and holding onto this fantasy is bordering on psychosis.
From liberal debate tactics -
2. DEMONIZE YOUR OPPONENT. Attempt to cover them with shame, the same way you would a 4 year old that touches his pee-pee.

152 doesn't have any recourse.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 07, 2009, 06:01:31 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
Actually it is you without recourse.  You have absolutely no proof that Obama was not born in the United States.  The onus is on you to provide concrete proof of birth elsewhere.  A redacted birth certificate number does not constitute proof.  It doesn't even constitute raising an eyebrow.  Until you can provide something that shows absolute proof that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen, your credibility falls in the same category as alien abductions.
That isn't how it works and no one is saying that Obama is not a natural born citizen.  He is now President and our country owes it to the populace to provide appropiate documentation that its president is indeed a natural born citizen.  If I was running for the office of president and someone wanted to see my birth certificate to determine my status and lawfulness for running for such an office, I would be compelled by my duty to be transparent to the citizens of which to govern.  Everything would be out in the open for careful examination.  That is to be expected considering the importance of the position.  Are you so dense that nothing sane sinks in?
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 07, 2009, 11:05:51 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
You are an absolute tard.  He made his birth certificate public and it was examined and shown to be authentic and there is no reason to believe otherwise except for by total dumbass' such as yourself.  The discussion between us is over fvcktard.
Another proud graduate of the Sparky School of Rhetorical Incompetance
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 07, 2009, 11:15:37 PM
Quote from: "152lbs"
vise, you are just as stupid as the rest for believing that crap.  It is isn't about being republican, democrat, or libertarian.  It is about the fact that some of you have your head stuck so far up your azz that you believe any kind of fringe theory.  Next you are going to tell me that 9/11 was an inside job.

You have no idea what I believe. I merely find it odd that Obama could end all this speculation with a request that the valult copy be released. Yet he wont.

As to the 9/11 conspiracy theories I'll leave those to all you Bush haters.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012 on June 08, 2009, 03:03:16 AM
Let's just make it clear, that not everybody opposing Obama and the Democrats are wackos like ctc, ViseGrip, and BOG. Some of us are normal, intelligent people who are able to use our brains and make legitimate criticisms against the *policies* of the left, instead of pursuing these baseless attacks. I am embarrassed that these wackos are the loudest voices of my political affiliation, but they definitely not the majority.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: November 1, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.
Analysis
Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the  registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

    Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

    Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

    Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

    Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

    Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

    Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.

Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

    * The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
    * It isn't signed.
    * No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.
    * In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
    * The certificate number is blacked out.
    * The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
    * The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.


The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller


Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp


The raised seal


Blowup of text

You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.


Blowup of certificate number

Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.

We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."

We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:


Obama's birth announcement


The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.
Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

–by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012 on June 08, 2009, 03:20:28 AM
Why the stories about Obama's birth certificate will never die

Barack Obama was, without question, born in the U.S., and he is eligible to be president, but experts on conspiracy theories say that won't ever matter to those who believe otherwise.

Dec. 5, 2008 | Barack Obama can't be president: He wasn't really born in Hawaii, and the certification of live birth his campaign released is a forgery. He was born in Kenya. Or maybe Indonesia. Or, wait, maybe he was born in Hawaii -- but that doesn't matter, since he was also a British citizen at birth because of his father, and you can't be a "natural-born citizen" in that case. (But then, maybe his "father" wasn't really his father; maybe his real dad was an obscure communist poet. Or Malcolm X.)

You might think these rumors would have died off after Obama produced proof in June that he was, in fact, born in Hawaii to an American citizen, his mother, Ann, or after Hawaii state officials confirmed in October that he was born there. You might think the rumors would have died off after he was elected by a comfortable margin. Instead, they've intensified. There have been paid advertisements in the Chicago Tribune questioning the president-elect's birth certificate and eligibility, and one group is raising money to run a similar ad on television. The right-wing Web site WorldNetDaily has been reporting on the issue almost nonstop. Numerous plaintiffs have filed lawsuits in various states. And Friday, the Supreme Court's nine justices will decide whether they want to hear one of those suits, which also contends that John McCain, born in the former Panama Canal Zone, does not meet the Constitution's requirements to hold the presidency.

The people hoping this is a sign the court will agree with them and stop Obama from becoming president are almost certain to be let down. The fact that the case has gone to conference doesn't mean anything about its merits -- the court will also be deciding whether to take up a number of other cases, and the chances that the suit will actually be heard is exceedingly small. Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA, has calculated that over the past eight years the court has considered in conference 842 cases that sought a stay. Only 60 of them were actually heard. Seven hundred and eighty-two were denied.

But that doesn't matter. The faux controversy isn't going to go away soon. Yes, Obama was born in Hawaii, and yes, he is eligible to be president. But according to several experts in conspiracy theories, and in the psychology of people who believe in conspiracy theories, there's little chance those people who think Obama is barred from the presidency will ever be convinced otherwise. "There's no amount of evidence or data that will change somebody's mind," says Michael Shermer, who is the publisher of Skeptic magazine and a columnist for Scientific American, and who holds an undergraduate and a master's degree in psychology. "The more data you present a person, the more they doubt it ... Once you're committed, especially behaviorally committed or financially committed, the more impossible it becomes to change your mind."

Any inconvenient facts are irrelevant. People who believe in a conspiracy theory "develop a selective perception, their mind refuses to accept contrary evidence," Chip Berlet, a senior analyst with Political Research Associates who studies such theories, says. "As soon as you criticize a conspiracy theory, you become part of the conspiracy."

Evan Harrington, a social psychologist who is an associate professor at the Chicago School of Professional Psychology, agrees. "One of the tendencies of the conspiracy notion, the whole appeal, is that a lot of the information the believer has is secret or special," Harrington says. "The real evidence is out there, [and] you can give them all this evidence, but they'll have convenient ways to discredit [it]."

Whatever can't be ignored can be twisted to fit into the narrative; every new disclosure of something that should, by rights, end the controversy only opens up new questions, identifies new plotters. Perhaps the most common argument of those questioning Obama's eligibility is that he should just release his full, original birth certificate, rather than the shorter certification, which is a copy. His failure to do so only proves there is reason to be suspicious, they say, and if the document was released, the issue would go away. But that's unlikely. It was, after all, the Obama campaign's release of the certification this summer that stoked the fever of conspiracy mongers.

For believers, it works like this: So what if Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health, released a statement saying she has verified that the state has the original birth certificate on record? So what if she said separately that the certification looks identical to one she was issued for her own Hawaii birth certificate? Why didn't her statement specify Obama's birthplace? So what if a Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman later clarified that Fukino meant that Obama was born in Hawaii? So what if researchers for FactCheck.org actually saw the physical copy of the certification and debunked much of the key "evidence" supposedly proving that the image posted online is a forgery? They're not really independent. They're funded by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, and Obama once (with Bill Ayers, no less) ran an entirely unrelated program that happened to be paid for with money donated by Walter Annenberg. And on and on and on.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: sgallan on June 08, 2009, 08:52:11 AM
Quote from: "ctc"
Many of those koolaid drinkers are beginning to wise up.  They got taken in by the glamour and pomp of "Change".  Now that disaster is immenent, they are seeing their own poor judgment.  We will never fully recover.  The debt is too massive and growing quickly (I even heard yesterday that a new stimilus plan is in the works).  Yikes!!!

Actually the disaster preceded the current President. Whether he can fix it or not with what he is doing is still an open question. Even in the Reagan years the unemployment rate went up to 10.8 through 1982 before they started to come down in 1983. Now if all conservative Republicans have is the hope of failure as their best option to get back into power, with these side show issues being their main focus, they will probably not make the gains in the mid-terms they should, much less regain they White House. Considering there are Supreme Court openings at stake in the next eight years, I would have thought they would be smarter than that. Apparently not.

1981-02-01   7.4
1981-03-01   7.4
1981-04-01   7.2
1981-05-01   7.5
1981-06-01   7.5
1981-07-01   7.2
1981-08-01   7.4
1981-09-01   7.6
1981-10-01   7.9
1981-11-01   8.3
1981-12-01   8.5
1982-01-01   8.6
1982-02-01   8.9
1982-03-01   9.0
1982-04-01   9.3
1982-05-01   9.4
1982-06-01   9.6
1982-07-01   9.8
1982-08-01   9.8
1982-09-01  10.1
1982-10-01  10.4
1982-11-01  10.8
1982-12-01  10.8
1983-01-01  10.4
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 08, 2009, 09:21:04 AM
with these side show issues being their main focus - sgallan

I don't know of any Republicans that fit your description.  If any do, they do have problems.  The economy, socialism/capitalism, and national security are definitely at the main focus.  What news source do you use that tells you otherwise?
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: sgallan on June 08, 2009, 04:28:21 PM
Look at this thread. Look at the initial tone of the Sotomyer debate. Listen to talk radio (hge audience). Look at the "the media only covered the abortion shooter and not the other one" (not true) the media is out to get us debate. Look at the NYC 'date' thing. All ridiculous..... just like the election..... and obviously it didn't work then.... what makes you think it will work now.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 08, 2009, 04:37:57 PM
Quote from: "sgallan"
Look at this thread. Look at the initial tone of the Sotomyer debate. Listen to talk radio (hge audience). Look at the "the media only covered the abortion shooter and not the other one" (not true) the media is out to get us debate. Look at the NYC 'date' thing. All ridiculous..... just like the election..... and obviously it didn't work then.... what makes you think it will work now.
Yeah... you're right. There is NO media bias. Its just the rantings  of that VRWC.

Newsweek editor Evan Thomas brought adulation over President Obama’s Cairo speech to a whole new level on Friday, declaring on MSNBC: "I mean in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of God."

Thomas, appearing on Hardball with Chris Matthews, was reacting to a preceding monologue in which Matthews praised Obama’s speech: "I think the President's speech yesterday was the reason we Americans elected him. It was grand. It was positive. Hopeful...But what I liked about the President's speech in Cairo was that it showed a complete humility...The question now is whether the President we elected and spoke for us so grandly yesterday can carry out the great vision he gave us and to the world."

Matthews discussed Obama’s upcoming speech marking the 65th anniversary of D-Day and compared it to that of Ronald Reagan. He then turned to Thomas and asked: "Reagan and World War II and the sense of us as the good guys in the world, how are we doing?" Thomas replied: "Well, we were the good guys in 1984, it felt that way. It hasn't felt that way in recent years. So Obama’s had, really, a different task We're seen too often as the bad guys. And he – he has a very different job from – Reagan was all about America, and you talked about it. Obama is ‘we are above that now.’ We're not just parochial, we're not just chauvinistic, we're not just provincial."
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: sgallan on June 08, 2009, 07:10:54 PM
Yeah... you're right. There is NO media bias. Its just the rantings of that VRWC.

You mean like Fox (highest rated cable by far), and virtually all of talk radio? That bias? If all the Republican Party has is dumb stuff, and chasing off all except the "true believers", and making sure they lose the vast majority of people of race, then they will doubtlessly remain an ineffective "pup tent" regional party for a very long time. And that would suck. I rather hope they get this circular firing squad thing out of their system, and become a party of ideas, instead of the party of pettiness and whining.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012 on June 08, 2009, 07:41:47 PM
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 08, 2009, 10:07:53 PM
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "sgallan"
Look at this thread. Look at the initial tone of the Sotomyer debate. Listen to talk radio (hge audience). Look at the "the media only covered the abortion shooter and not the other one" (not true) the media is out to get us debate. Look at the NYC 'date' thing. All ridiculous..... just like the election..... and obviously it didn't work then.... what makes you think it will work now.
Yeah... you're right. There is NO media bias. Its just the rantings  of that VRWC.

Newsweek editor Evan Thomas brought adulation over President Obama’s Cairo speech to a whole new level on Friday, declaring on MSNBC: "I mean in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of God."

Thomas, appearing on Hardball with Chris Matthews, was reacting to a preceding monologue in which Matthews praised Obama’s speech: "I think the President's speech yesterday was the reason we Americans elected him. It was grand. It was positive. Hopeful...But what I liked about the President's speech in Cairo was that it showed a complete humility...The question now is whether the President we elected and spoke for us so grandly yesterday can carry out the great vision he gave us and to the world."

Matthews discussed Obama’s upcoming speech marking the 65th anniversary of D-Day and compared it to that of Ronald Reagan. He then turned to Thomas and asked: "Reagan and World War II and the sense of us as the good guys in the world, how are we doing?" Thomas replied: "Well, we were the good guys in 1984, it felt that way. It hasn't felt that way in recent years. So Obama’s had, really, a different task We're seen too often as the bad guys. And he – he has a very different job from – Reagan was all about America, and you talked about it. Obama is ‘we are above that now.’ We're not just parochial, we're not just chauvinistic, we're not just provincial."

MSM and Obama liberal groupies lack the ability to see their own partisanship .They despise FOX simply because it is a alternative to MSM. FOX is actually less biased than MSM imho. I  read   "A Slobbering Love Affair" by Goldberg recently. It makes sense to me.


McCain  quickly provided his birth certificate when he was challenged and the case was actually allowed to be argued before a judge. http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2008/ ... s-mcc.html (http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2008/09/judge-rules-mcc.html)  McCain's citizenship  was  also discussed in Congress.   Obama should have done the same thing  McCain did months ago in 2008 when he was challenged.. I supported McCain since he didn't think he was exempt from the law. Obama supporters hypocritically defend the indefensible imho. This is also why they engage in so much name calling since it's their only recourse.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 08, 2009, 10:27:57 PM
Quote from: "sgallan"
Yeah... you're right. There is NO media bias. Its just the rantings of that VRWC.

You mean like Fox (highest rated cable by far), and virtually all of talk radio? That bias? If all the Republican Party has is dumb stuff, and chasing off all except the "true believers", and making sure they lose the vast majority of people of race, then they will doubtlessly remain an ineffective "pup tent" regional party for a very long time. And that would suck. I rather hope they get this circular firing squad thing out of their system, and become a party of ideas, instead of the party of pettiness and whining.

What's wrong with people watching whatever they please? The Democrats are the one's pushing for the "Fairness Doctrine" regarding FOX and talk radio. These same promoters of the "Fairness Doctrine" would scream bloody murder if it was applied to MSM. They'd cry that applying the "Fairness Doctrine" in this manner was fascist.They hypocritically want to apply it to talk radio and FOX only as MSM continues to lose customers.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 09, 2009, 08:29:48 AM
Quote from: "ctc"
with these side show issues being their main focus - sgallan

I don't know of any Republicans that fit your description.  If any do, they do have problems.  The economy, socialism/capitalism, and national security are definitely at the main focus.  What news source do you use that tells you otherwise?
I challenge your statement and this is your reply?!?

Look at this thread.
You mean we can only talk about the really big issues only?

Look at the initial tone of the Sotomyer debate.
"at the tone", the Supreme Court appointment is its own seperate major item.  How lame to criticize the discussions about it and use that to belittle the Republicans.

Listen to talk radio (hge audience).
Meaningless, unsupportive of your claim statement.

Look at the "the media only covered the abortion shooter and not the other one" (not true) the media is out to get us debate.
Almost completely true.  There are other things too instead of just "economy, national security, and socialism/capitalism".  Any government leader has to address many issues that have an impact on the people.  Strike 3.

 Look at the NYC 'date' thing. All ridiculous..... just like the election..... and obviously it didn't work then.... what makes you think it will work now.
I don't even know what you are talking about here.  It must be a MAJOR focus.  Strike 4.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 09, 2009, 08:34:11 AM
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
"Empty".  Be specific.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 09, 2009, 12:01:28 PM
Quote from: "sgallan"
Yeah... you're right. There is NO media bias. Its just the rantings of that VRWC.

You mean like Fox (highest rated cable by far), and virtually all of talk radio? That bias? If all the Republican Party has is dumb stuff, and chasing off all except the "true believers", and making sure they lose the vast majority of people of race, then they will doubtlessly remain an ineffective "pup tent" regional party for a very long time. And that would suck. I rather hope they get this circular firing squad thing out of their system, and become a party of ideas, instead of the party of pettiness and whining.
No... I mean like NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, Newsweek, Time, NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, etc etc etc.

You point to what is maybe 10% of the media outlets and use that as justicication of your absurd contention that there is no overwhelming bias in the media. FYI here's one of them admitting it.


Love or lust, Obama and the fawning press need to get a room
When Barack Obama decided that questions from the German press about his trip agenda in that country were too pesky, he told the reporters, "So, stop it all of you!" He just wanted them to ask things he wanted to talk about. Well, what politico wouldn't want that?

OK, dad. We'll behave.

And according to a new Pew Research Center poll, we are behaving...like fans. On domestic press, it showed that "President Barack Obama has enjoyed substantially more positive media coverage than either Bill Clinton or George W. Bush during their first months in the White House" with "roughly twice as much" Obama coverage about his "personal or leadership qualities" than was the case for either previous president.

Back in the US, NBC's Brian Williams' two-part "Living Large With the Top Dog" feature on Mr. Obama's life included a plug for Conan O'Brien's new show and mention of cable talkies where Mr. Obama only cited MSNBC personalities. Accident? I don't think so. There were a few probing moments in there, but they were overshadowed by the flash of hanging out in the back of the Auto One limo and having burgers. A little navel-gazing among journalism standards hall monitors about whether the thing had been too soft came and went.


Then, this Sunday in the NYTimes, there was full-on chick-flick swooning over Barack and Michelle Obama's heavily scented "date night" in NY City and its high bar standard effect on our relationship culture, with just a hint of controversy over the taxpayer costs to add some spice. I swear I've seen this movie, only Michael Douglas was the President. Or Harrison Ford. Or one of those cool and languid characters you'd want to like you. George Bush needed to be beer-bar likable to get elected. His successor has managed to get a lot of people to want to be liked by him.

And in Paris, Mr. Obama talked about how he'd love to take his wife for a romantic tour of the City of Lovers, but couldn't. Then he did. I'm guessing some regular-Joe freedom fries weren't on the menu.

This guy is good. Really good. And, frankly, so far, we're not.

You can't blame powerful people for wanting to play the press to peddle self-perpetuating mythology. But you can blame the press, already suffocating under a massive pile of blame, guilt, heavy debt and sinking fortunes, for being played. Some of the time, it seems we're even enthusiastically jumping into the pond without even being pushed. Is there an actual limit to the number of instances you can be the cover of Newsweek?

If I wanted to see highly manicured image management I'd just take some No-Doz and read Gavin Newsom's tweets. But the Obama-press dance is a more consensual seduction where, in the old-fashioned sense, we're the girl. (In California, there's no other option.)

I thought that the Maxfield Parrish, heroic days of the Kennedy Administration PR, where the press and the president were pretty much all in on the same screenplay and the same jokes, couldn't happen in our modern era, what with paparazzi and tabloids and talk shows, citizen sound-bite scavengers and voracious 24/7 news cycles. But now that the stumbling Bushes and smirking Clintons are out of the White House, time has compressed back on itself like the machine in the Denzel Washington movie, "Deja Vu." It's the early 1960s and Camelot all over again:

Very attractive wife, cute, precocious kids and the hopes and dreams of at least 63 percent of the population sitting on the athletic shoulders of a young, charismatic, mold-breaking leader, Blah, blah. (Oh, and a Chicago Mayor Richard Daley helped make it possible. We can play the Lincoln-Kennedy parallels game here.) Only there's a puppy now instead of a pony and it seems like Barack Obama may be less socially, self-destructively libertine than Mr. Kennedy. In fact, he's downright conservative on things like same-sex marriage. (It's smart to have a wholesome life -- though very clearly, in the sinuous world of the Obamas, not to the point of abstinence -- when you're pushing programs that get labeled as socialist.)

So we're in love, lust, or just a whole lot of like. Clearly we get something in exchange, whether it's a little reflected exuberance, a sense of history or just some very minor role in a fun movie. If you want to appear in a movie with John Travolta, you go willingly with him to the LA Scientology Center and are happy about it. "I'm clear, man. Hand me the cans."

I'm not sure Mr. Obama is necessarily getting away with anything here. In Cairo, when he spoke of the "principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings," more than a few writers pointed out that this meant unless you're the Egyptian government or two gay people wanting to get married. What the President was saying overseas, to mostly purplish commentators' delight over the symbolic significance of the event, Dick Cheney was actually meaning in his own "freedom means freedom for everyone" speech about same-sex weddings.

The style-over-substance hit followed him from continent to continent. "While the president is popular among Europeans," the Wall Street Journal wrote, "he returned from his second trip to Europe with little more progress on key issues" than he got on his first visit. That's the Journal. But the Washington Post, where the John Kennedy myth was nurtured like a golden statue, managed a cautionary op-ed column from Robert Samuelson warning that "our political system works best when a president faces checks on his power." He meant checks from the press.

Samuelson was one of the few in the media to give some room to the Pew Research Center poll.

So far, this is all about image and character and press "opportunities." But with what CNN financial reporter Elizabeth Cohen called this morning "gazillions of dollars" of our money at stake and crazy people with nukes bristling from around the edges of the world, we can't afford not to keep a closer eye on the substance thing.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 09, 2009, 12:11:40 PM
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.

Here was a guy who professes to being a moderate Republican. Yet when a moderate Republican gets the nomination, does he endorse that man? No, he waits until he thinks it safe and endorses the most liberal man in the Senate, and one with virtually NO experience.

I'd like to ask someone why a self-described moderate Republican would endorese the most liberal Democrat nominee of all time. More liberal than McGovern, Mondale or Stevenson. Just WHAT Republican principles does Powell believe in, and where are those found  in Obama?

And once you've explained that, tell me why this man SHOULDNT be ostracized.

Did the Democrats pay any price by running Joe Lieberman out of their party?
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Cougar1 on June 09, 2009, 12:21:03 PM
But you can blame the press, already suffocating under a massive pile of blame, guilt, heavy debt and sinking fortunes, for being played.

Well said.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: sgallan on June 09, 2009, 02:58:32 PM
Well gosh if it is a grand media conspiracy I guess the Republicans will remain the minority party forever then. (rolls eyes)

Now I remember why I have stayed away from political conversations on this board.... they get whiny (boo hoo the media is out to get us) and conspiratorial virtually everytime. I think I'll bail now.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 09, 2009, 03:13:20 PM
Quote from: "sgallan"
Well gosh if it is a grand media conspiracy I guess the Republicans will remain the minority party forever then. (rolls eyes)

Now I remember why I have stayed away from political conversations on this board.... they get whiny (boo hoo the media is out to get us) and conspiratorial virtually everytime. I think I'll bail now.
Dont let that door hit you on the way out.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 10, 2009, 07:41:00 AM
Quote from: "sgallan"
Well gosh if it is a grand media conspiracy I guess the Republicans will remain the minority party forever then. (rolls eyes)

Now I remember why I have stayed away from political conversations on this board.... they get whiny (boo hoo the media is out to get us) and conspiratorial virtually everytime. I think I'll bail now.
Nobody got ugly with you and called you names.  All that was done to you was viable, healthy debate.  Why the "boo-hoo"?  There are about 5 posters on Jensen's forum that get flat-out nasty.  I only know 3 on here that do the same and 152 has said "good-bye".  People disagree with your assestment and challenge you on it.  Soumds like healthy discource to me.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012 on June 10, 2009, 06:39:08 PM
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.


No, I don't mean Colin Powell. I mean people like me and millions of others who support the Republican party because we believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, yet we don't believe in every extremist conspiracy theory that wackos like you and ctc and BOG believe in.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 10, 2009, 07:44:36 PM
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.


No, I don't mean Colin Powell. I mean people like me and millions of others who support the Republican party because we believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, yet we don't believe in every extremist conspiracy theory that wackos like you and ctc and BOG believe in.

I believe in the following: limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ. You believe that anyone who criticizes Obama is a believer in a whacko extremist theory. I think your own assumption is what's whacko since  you're the minority on this forum as the poll B/C  documents. You simply disagree with any criticism of Obama and you can't rationally defend his behavior so you're resorting to name calling. You're probably a Democrat playing silly forum games imho.

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
 
YES   17%  [ 4 ]
NO   83%  [ 19 ] x
 
Total votes : 23
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: trollster on June 10, 2009, 09:01:22 PM
What is the margin of error for this particular poll?  The sample size seems rather small to be valid.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 10, 2009, 09:08:46 PM
Quote from: "trollster"
What is the margin of error for this particular poll?  The sample size seems rather small to be valid.
Nobody is trying to statistically prove anything regarding USA society . It's a statement of fact regarding this forum though. Nice trolling though.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: trollster on June 10, 2009, 09:21:55 PM
It's a valid question, what is the margin of error for this particular poll?  First we need to look to at the sample size.  Then we need to examine the demographics of the sample.  Then we have to look at the phrasing of the question and whether it is a leading question or not.  Also what is the standard deviation?  Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on June 10, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: "trollster"
It's a valid question, what is the margin of error for this particular poll?  First we need to look to at the sample size.  Then we need to examine the demographics of the sample.  Then we have to look at the phrasing of the question and whether it is a leading question or not.  Also what is the standard deviation?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Sounds like you need a project to work on. I think you need to update the forum with your final report on this subject in about 2 months when you're finished determining all that vital stuff trollster.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: trollster on June 10, 2009, 09:35:39 PM
I have other important things to do.  The original question is a moot point since it has already been settled to most everyone's (except a very small insignificant few) satisfaction.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: LoSt on June 11, 2009, 02:49:09 AM
Quote from: "trollster"
It's a valid question, what is the margin of error for this particular poll?  First we need to look to at the sample size.  Then we need to examine the demographics of the sample.  Then we have to look at the phrasing of the question and whether it is a leading question or not.  Also what is the standard deviation?  Inquiring minds want to know.

I started a thread with a similar question and less biased wording and the response was very different.  I never bothered to follow it up, but I was trying to hit on these points.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: LoSt on June 11, 2009, 02:49:41 AM
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.


No, I don't mean Colin Powell. I mean people like me and millions of others who support the Republican party because we believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, yet we don't believe in every extremist conspiracy theory that wackos like you and ctc and BOG believe in.

I salute you sir
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ctc on June 11, 2009, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: "trollster"
What is the margin of error for this particular poll?  The sample size seems rather small to be valid.
I see with new posters like troll,the "no" vote is going up.  It doesn't really help that one has multiple user names - the poll leveled off at 19 - 3.  Turds sign on with a different computer and user name and pad the count.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: usnlt7676 on June 11, 2009, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: "BOG"
Why has OBAMA spent almost a million dollars to keep his long form birth certificate and college admissions records hidden instead of spending less than $50 dollars to have them released?

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?

No, but a man who cares far more about himself than any rule of law would. Obama is and always will be a crusader for liberalism and government control of the people. He believes that people are too stupid to control their own lives and would be best run by the smart people in the government, people like him conveniently enough.

All his empty words do not hide the fact that this is who he is.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on June 11, 2009, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.


No, I don't mean Colin Powell. I mean people like me and millions of others who support the Republican party because we believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, yet we don't believe in every extremist conspiracy theory that wackos like you and ctc and BOG believe in.

A. I've never said I believe Obama is foreign born. I have said I find it curious that he has it within his power to end this controversy by having the vault copy released but wont.

B. Acknowledging this fact is no less logical than the belief of a diety that cannot be seen or proved. So I will resist the temptation to call you a religious whacko.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: usnlt7676 on June 12, 2009, 02:33:26 AM
People who think the Republicans are doomed don't understand history. People's political leanings change like the wind...now that the Dems have power, if the economy collapses completely they will be blamed for it and the winds of change will blow again. The only thing the Dems could do in that case is try to blame Bush again, and that actually may work b/c people are suckers for pretty speeches.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: StephanVonVesthell on July 21, 2009, 04:38:15 AM
You won't believe this video I found of BOG's home town hall meeting.
[video:3q3za9bx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecynical%2Dc%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded[/video:3q3za9bx]
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: StephanVonVesthell on July 21, 2009, 04:38:36 AM
I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Jimmy the Gent on July 21, 2009, 10:11:59 AM
Quote from: "StephanVonVesthell"
You won't believe this video I found of BOG's home town hall meeting.
[video:aif478le]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecynical%2Dc%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded[/video:aif478le]

that was really embarrassing to watch, especially when they did the Pledge of Allegiance.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: ViseGrip on July 21, 2009, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: "Jimmy the Gent"
Quote from: "StephanVonVesthell"
You won't believe this video I found of BOG's home town hall meeting.
[video:394jkl50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecynical%2Dc%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded[/video:394jkl50]

that was really embarrassing to watch, especially when they did the Pledge of Allegiance.
I wasn't embarrassed at all, why should you be?

I see people very alarmed with the direction their country is being taken and they're DAMNED IRATE about it. Instead of screaming foul language and shouting down the speaker as liberals do, they protest by breaking into the Pledge of Allegiance.  It looks like our Republican form of government in action to me.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Jimmy the Gent on July 21, 2009, 12:25:36 PM
[video:2myp16t1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mKSv_Qe_cs&feature=related[/video:2myp16t1]
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: StephanVonVesthell on July 21, 2009, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "Jimmy the Gent"
Quote from: "StephanVonVesthell"
You won't believe this video I found of BOG's home town hall meeting.
[video:10q2wd1k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecynical%2Dc%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded[/video:10q2wd1k]

that was really embarrassing to watch, especially when they did the Pledge of Allegiance.
I wasn't embarrassed at all, why should you be?

I see people very alarmed with the direction their country is being taken and they're DAMNED IRATE about it. Instead of screaming foul language and shouting down the speaker as liberals do, they protest by breaking into the Pledge of Allegiance.  It looks like our Republican form of government in action to me.
Sure, if it was really up for debate.

(http://http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/obamabirthcertificate.jpg)


Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.


Hawaii has two major newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin.

BOTH newspapers include birth announcements, and BOTH newspapers record the August 4th, 1961 birth of Barack Obama.


Look at the arrows.
http://http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php
(http://http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser0000.gif)
(http://http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaBirthStarBulletin.jpg)





Factcheck.org did an entire piece on this issue.  From what I understand they don't offer much spin.  
http://http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller
(http://http://cdn.factcheck.org/imagefiles/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/hands.jpg)

Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp
(http://http://cdn.factcheck.org/imagefiles/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/signature.jpg)

The raised seal
(http://http://cdn.factcheck.org/imagefiles/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/seal.jpg)

Blowup of text
(http://http://cdn.factcheck.org/imagefiles/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/blowup.jpg)

Blowup of certificate number
(http://http://cdn.factcheck.org/imagefiles/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Birth%20Certificate/certificatenumberscreen.jpg)

What more do the drooling 'birthers' want from him?
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: alias on July 21, 2009, 08:52:12 PM
bog is an idiot, let him go on with his crusade.  He probably also believes the moon landing was a hoax and that 9/11 was a controlled demolition and an inside job.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: Jimmy the Gent on July 21, 2009, 08:54:18 PM
Quote from: "alias"
bog is an idiot, let him go on with his crusade.  He probably also believes the moon landing was a hoax and that 9/11 was a controlled demolition and an inside job.

good points about BOG.  don't forget he probably thinks bush denotated the levees in New Orleans.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: StephanVonVesthell on July 21, 2009, 08:55:56 PM
I just don't understand how someone can latch onto like this with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: BOG on July 21, 2009, 09:47:01 PM
I guess some Obamamaniacs didn't like my joke"THE INDIAN STUDENT" so they 've scurried out from their rat nests to launch attacks on old threads. :lol:
Title: Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
Post by: StephanVonVesthell on July 21, 2009, 09:47:59 PM
Quote from: "BOG"
I guess some Obamamaniacs didn't like my joke"THE INDIAN STUDENT" so they 've scurried out from their rat nests to launch attacks on old threads. :lol:
?

Attacks?