The Open Mat Forum

Wrestling => College => Topic started by: DiMaria on March 22, 2014, 09:29:46 AM

Title: 17 All-Americans
Post by: DiMaria on March 22, 2014, 09:29:46 AM
For the Keystone state. Hands down the best state in the nation for HS and college wrestling.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: pipewrench on March 22, 2014, 09:50:24 AM
Thank you.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: lkwdsteve on March 22, 2014, 11:28:44 AM
We already knew PA would be first and Ohio second.

Which are the the best of the rest?
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Rockhard on March 22, 2014, 11:35:55 AM
If CA had 15 D1 programs, it would be different.

I think if every state had an even playing field, the numbers would be much different.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Cougar1 on March 22, 2014, 11:53:14 AM
For the Keystone state. Hands down the best state in the nation for HS and college wrestling.

Do you have the complete list Di?
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Jason Bryant on March 22, 2014, 12:19:01 PM
If CA had 15 D1 programs, it would be different.

I think if every state had an even playing field, the numbers would be much different.

I don't. Go look at how many PA kids are All-Americans at schools outside of PA.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: kingpeezy on March 22, 2014, 12:45:05 PM
Pennsylvania definitely has the best HS wrestling but college wrestling doesn't just include D1. If you look at other divisions as well I think Iowa holds that honor.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Jason Bryant on March 22, 2014, 02:05:02 PM
PA also has a ton of kids in Division II and Division III.  Few in the NAIA.

I think it's PA overall.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: heelpick on March 22, 2014, 02:30:05 PM
Are you talking about AA's that are in Pennsylvania colleges or went to high school in Pennsylvania?
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Rockhard on March 22, 2014, 02:44:38 PM
I'm under the belief that if a state like CA, had more D1 colleges, like PA does, it would have more D1 wrestlers competing and would be the same if not better than PA.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Jason Bryant on March 22, 2014, 02:55:34 PM
I'm under the belief that if a state like CA, had more D1 colleges, like PA does, it would have more D1 wrestlers competing and would be the same if not better than PA.

Not going to argue what you believe, but if you apply the same principle, North Carolina should have more All-Americans. (North Carolina, N.C. State, Duke, Campbell, Gardner-Webb, Appalachian State, Davidson).

Wrestling's a big part of the culture in big pockets of the state. It's not like all the PA All-Americans were at PA schools.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: fuhr on March 22, 2014, 03:10:33 PM
Pennsylvania 17 AA's for population base of 12,773,801   or 1 AA for every 751,400
Iowa 6 AAs with population base of 3090416 1 AA for every 515,069




I'll take those numbers for the little state of Iowa. 
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: lu_alum on March 22, 2014, 03:26:12 PM
If CA had 15 D1 programs, it would be different.

I think if every state had an even playing field, the numbers would be much different.
Actually, it's eleven:

Bloomsburg
Bucknell
Clarion
Drexel
Edinboro
Franklin & Marshall
Lehigh
Lock Haven
Pittsburgh
Penn State
Pennsylvania
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: lu_alum on March 22, 2014, 03:30:47 PM
Pennsylvania 17 AA's for population base of 12,773,801   or 1 AA for every 751,400
Iowa 6 AAs with population base of 3090416 1 AA for every 515,069




I'll take those numbers for the little state of Iowa.

That works if you include old ladies and babies in your denominator (per capita).  Using number of participants listed in the NCAA tournament program:

PA:  17 AAs / 9,740 HS participants = 1.745 AAs for every 1000 participants
IA:  6 AAs / 6,709 HS participants = 0.894 AAs for every 1000 participants
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Rockhard on March 22, 2014, 03:32:29 PM
I'm under the belief that if a state like CA, had more D1 colleges, like PA does, it would have more D1 wrestlers competing and would be the same if not better than PA.

Not going to argue what you believe, but if you apply the same principle, North Carolina should have more All-Americans. (North Carolina, N.C. State, Duke, Campbell, Gardner-Webb, Appalachian State, Davidson).

Wrestling's a big part of the culture in big pockets of the state. It's not like all the PA All-Americans were at PA schools.

True but CA has better wrestling than NC.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: lu_alum on March 22, 2014, 03:33:29 PM
Pennsylvania 17 AA's for population base of 12,773,801   or 1 AA for every 751,400
Iowa 6 AAs with population base of 3090416 1 AA for every 515,069




I'll take those numbers for the little state of Iowa.

That works if you include old ladies and babies in your denominator (per capita).  Using number of participants listed in the NCAA tournament program:

PA:  17 AAs / 9,740 HS participants = 1.745 AAs for every 1000 participants
IA:  6 AAs / 6,709 HS participants = 0.894 AAs for every 1000 participants
couldn't find a way to edit... bottom line is a PA HS wrestler is nearly 2x more likely to end up as a Division I AA than an IA HS wrestler.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: lkwdsteve on March 22, 2014, 03:46:56 PM
To me the most interesting story is that 1 of every 461 persons in Iowa is a high school wrestler.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Jointdoc55 on March 22, 2014, 03:53:52 PM
And the controversy continues.....

I think that if you consider the number of people interested in wrestling as the denominator, you'd find that Vermont is the best wrestling state. In Vermont, 7 people have an interest in
 wrestling, and 1 is an all american. That's 14%! Of course, the 7 interested persons are: Wrestler's mother, father, brother, sister, paternal grandmother, maternal grandfather, and of course, the wrestler himself.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: lkwdsteve on March 22, 2014, 04:02:27 PM
And the controversy continues.....

I think that if you consider the number of people interested in wrestling as the denominator, you'd find that Vermont is the best wrestling state. In Vermont, 7 people have an interest in
 wrestling, and 1 is an all american. That's 14%! Of course, the 7 interested persons are: Wrestler's mother, father, brother, sister, paternal grandmother, maternal grandfather, and of course, the wrestler himself.

I was being dead serious. It's all about the youth. Is there an existing culture that encourages them to join? And then do they get coached up properly? Definitely the case in Iowa (and PA). It's also a continuum.

For example I would guess that Texas in increasing it's participation rates, but the coaching has to catch up. Strictly a guess.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Rockhard on March 22, 2014, 06:02:27 PM
And BTW, how in the heck does NCAA have so many programs?
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Cougar1 on March 22, 2014, 06:33:41 PM
And the controversy continues.....

I think that if you consider the number of people interested in wrestling as the denominator, you'd find that Vermont is the best wrestling state. In Vermont, 7 people have an interest in
 wrestling, and 1 is an all american. That's 14%! Of course, the 7 interested persons are: Wrestler's mother, father, brother, sister, paternal grandmother, maternal grandfather, and of course, the wrestler himself.

I was being dead serious. It's all about the youth. Is there an existing culture that encourages them to join? And then do they get coached up properly? Definitely the case in Iowa (and PA). It's also a continuum.

For example I would guess that Texas in increasing it's participation rates, but the coaching has to catch up. Strictly a guess.

Ray has elaborated on the culture of PA youth wrestling. No doubt in my mind that is the source of their strength. They have a culture there that has existed for decades.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: fuhr on March 22, 2014, 06:59:25 PM
Pennsylvania 17 AA's for population base of 12,773,801   or 1 AA for every 751,400
Iowa 6 AAs with population base of 3090416 1 AA for every 515,069




I'll take those numbers for the little state of Iowa.

That works if you include old ladies and babies in your denominator (per capita).  Using number of participants listed in the NCAA tournament program:

PA:  17 AAs / 9,740 HS participants = 1.745 AAs for every 1000 participants
IA:  6 AAs / 6,709 HS participants = 0.894 AAs for every 1000 participants


Thank you.  Yes I went on straight population and considered taking out the over 65 percentage on the census site but didn't want to do the work.  Wouldn't have thought to look in something as simple as the program for participation numbers.... although that seems really high for Iowa to me. 
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: none on March 22, 2014, 08:18:24 PM
And the controversy continues.....

I think that if you consider the number of people interested in wrestling as the denominator, you'd find that Vermont is the best wrestling state. In Vermont, 7 people have an interest in
 wrestling, and 1 is an all american. That's 14%! Of course, the 7 interested persons are: Wrestler's mother, father, brother, sister, paternal grandmother, maternal grandfather, and of course, the wrestler himself.

I was being dead serious. It's all about the youth. Is there an existing culture that encourages them to join? And then do they get coached up properly? Definitely the case in Iowa (and PA). It's also a continuum.

For example I would guess that Texas in increasing it's participation rates, but the coaching has to catch up. Strictly a guess.

Ray has elaborated on the culture of PA youth wrestling. No doubt in my mind that is the source of their strength. They have a culture there that has existed for decades.

Coaching too..... when I did the camp circuit, in many/most states I was towards the top as far as wrestling technique knowledge, and functional technique, in Pennsylvania I was just another guy.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: FalconWrestlingKY on March 22, 2014, 09:04:35 PM
I remember when JO was hitting a tilt single leg defense that everyone had never seen before my WPIAL buddy told me that it was just another basic PA move and showed me how to do it. PAnis light years ahead of most states when it comes to technique
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: SVV on March 22, 2014, 09:25:29 PM
Ha.  You said Panis.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Jointdoc55 on March 23, 2014, 03:10:36 PM
Ha.  You said Panis.
My thought exactly!
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: FalconWrestlingKY on March 23, 2014, 04:27:46 PM
Blame ol Mr. Booze, he just loves making me look stupud
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: brycemus on January 29, 2016, 09:19:27 PM
short seems huge!  sorenson stays so freaking low it's gotta be tough to finish on him.  retherford has the length though that if he gets to an ankle it might work
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: red viking on March 20, 2021, 01:55:32 PM
That's California's problem. They have a much larger population than PA but still not nearly as many All Americans. We're talking about kids that went to HS in PA or the colleges? Either way I think they were on top. I think IL did well too as far as H.S. kids.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: red viking on March 20, 2021, 01:57:49 PM
In my opinion the best way to evaluate the quality of h.s. wrestling is per total population. So maybe IA is the best? OK up there too
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: red viking on March 20, 2021, 02:16:28 PM
4 All Americans from WI. Two freshmen got 3rd place and all 4 were underclassmen. Only one wrestles for badgers.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: RYou on March 20, 2021, 04:57:07 PM
I'll call this a partial list since I'm still plodding through today's finish.  It's a bit of an off year for NJ

2 Finalists
165 - Griffith -  Stanford - Bergen Catholic product
197 - Ferrari - Oklahoma State - spent his last 2 HS years wrestling for Bergen Catholic, after a year at Blair
(do we have to take credit for the turd)

4th Place
141 - Rivera - Rutgers
184 - Poznanski - Rutgers

7th Place
133 - Cannon - Northwestern
141 - Sherman - North Carolina


Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Bob H. on March 21, 2021, 09:08:54 AM
Well, you could let Texas have Ferrari and Florida have Sherman.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: RYou on March 21, 2021, 02:22:09 PM
Well, you could let Texas have Ferrari and Florida have Sherman.

2 Finalists
165 - Griffith -  Stanford - Bergen Catholic product
197 - Ferrari - Oklahoma State - spent his last 2 HS years wrestling for Bergen Catholic, after a year at Blair
(do we have to take credit for the turd)

4th Place
141 - Rivera - Rutgers
184 - Poznanski - Rutgers

7th Place
133 - Cannon - Northwestern
141 - Sherman - North Carolina

I didn't realize Sherman was from Fla, confused him with another from NJ on the Blair roster.  Ferrari did 3 years HS in NJ and 1 in TX.  His fam moved to NJ when headed to Blair and stayed when he transferred to Bergen Cath after a half yea. I think there is enough to lay claim, but if Texas wants him....feel free to take him. 
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: Bob H. on March 21, 2021, 03:40:59 PM
Similar to Sherman.  He was a Florida kid who was recruited to Blair.  The question in these situations is whether they were elite athletes who became elite before they went to Blair, or if they were good athletes who Blair made great.  Or, for that matter, where the athlete considers "home".

Similar, in reverse, to Frankin Gomez.  He was already good in Puerto Rico, became better in NJ and even better after two years in Brandon (then college, then the Olympics).  Florida, New Jersey and Puerto Rico all are happy to call him one of theirs.

Since you didn't want Ferrari, I said Texas could claim him.  Based on similar criteria, Florida could then claim Sherman.

As Florida has become a better wrestling state, we are losing some of our best to the boarding schools.  The most recent examples are Nic Bouzakis and Kai Owen to Wyoming Seminary.  I had even heard that, many years ago, Blair had tried to recruit Rocky Cozart (Brandon coach Russ Cozart's son) one summer as he was competing at Fargo.
Title: Re: 17 All-Americans
Post by: RYou on March 21, 2021, 10:59:39 PM
Similar to Sherman.  He was a Florida kid who was recruited to Blair.  The question in these situations is whether they were elite athletes who became elite before they went to Blair, or if they were good athletes who Blair made great.  Or, for that matter, where the athlete considers "home".

Similar, in reverse, to Frankin Gomez.  He was already good in Puerto Rico, became better in NJ and even better after two years in Brandon (then college, then the Olympics).  Florida, New Jersey and Puerto Rico all are happy to call him one of theirs.

Since you didn't want Ferrari, I said Texas could claim him.  Based on similar criteria, Florida could then claim Sherman.

As Florida has become a better wrestling state, we are losing some of our best to the boarding schools.  The most recent examples are Nic Bouzakis and Kai Owen to Wyoming Seminary.  I had even heard that, many years ago, Blair had tried to recruit Rocky Cozart (Brandon coach Russ Cozart's son) one summer as he was competing at Fargo.

Considering Ferrari left Blair in December of his first year there, I'm sure he'd say Blair didn't help him.

Cozart - yeah sounds like Buxton.  Blair hasn't been the same since Buxton got the boot.  Wyoming Seminary has been snagging some top tier talent that would have been Buxton recruits.  A big parochial in North Jersey has been scavenging the North talent putting another dent in Blair.
Ferrari and Griffith are 2.