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Site => Announcements => Topic started by: Ray Brinzer on May 09, 2014, 01:50:36 pm

Title: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 09, 2014, 01:50:36 pm
Please read this carefully.

Due to widespread abuse, political discussion has been suspended for three days.  Two areas have been frozen:  Politics >> General and Miscellaneous >> Evolution.  If this interrupts some legitimate, civil discussion underway, we regret the inconvenience.

In the meantime, any attempt to discuss topics which would normally go under these categories will be considered a violation of the rules, and will be punished.  Plainly put:  do not discuss politics or evolution until this ban lapses, or there will be serious consequences.

I have noted many times in the past that it is not feasible to hold a community to a higher standard of conduct than it wishes to be held to.  We have not the time or the inclination to censor much, chasten users for infractions, or settle squabbles.  This leaves us with an unacceptable status quo, and three options for change:


We have not yet decided which direction to take, but it is unlikely that things will remain has they have been.  Only constraints on our (meaning Viratas' and my) time have allowed things to go along this far in such a condition.

Beginning with the last option:  we have conducted a cost/benefit analysis of prohibiting political discussion here, and found that the "cost" column is quite empty.  If there was significant political dialogue taking place on a regular basis, losing it might be a personal concern, since we enjoy good debate.  We should regret to preclude the possibility of significant dialogue, but we must address our actual circumstances.

Short of this measure, it seems more practical to ban users than to attempt to modify their behavior.  There seems to be a population equilibrium in communities:  some natural size to which they tend to grow, and beyond which they do not.  It may be, then, that we shall see other, better-behaved members replace those culled, with a net gain as a civil community.  If not, at least those left will be better able to pursue serious discussion in peace.

The least likely thing would be for us to bar people from the political areas only.  It may be considered, however, in the case that a person has a strong history of making real contributions to wrestling topics.

If you are wondering whether you are a person who may be banned, almost certainly you are.  If, however, you remain in doubt as to how you should behave, consider whether you:


On the other hand, if you feel comfortable that you know who is likely to be banned, and that for one reason or another you are safe despite acting badly, you would do well to think again.  The best that a "he started it" defense will get you is company in exile.  Do not feel that you are safe because you have not been warned:  this is your warning.

You may feel free to discuss this decision here.  Rest assured that you will not be punished or secretly blacklisted for disagreeing with it, though a certain level of decorum is expected here as elsewhere.

Have a good weekend.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 09, 2014, 02:36:10 pm
Just a suggestion....

Those who post in those two blogs may not see this announcement. I think you should consider posting them there.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 09, 2014, 04:53:42 pm
Odd that a board that has not had a single post on it for almost two months would be locked down.  i.e. Evolution.  With no post for two months there obviously has not been a problem. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 09, 2014, 05:12:33 pm


Beginning with the last option:  we have conducted a cost/benefit analysis of prohibiting political discussion here, and found that the "cost" column is quite empty.  If there was significant political dialogue taking place on a regular basis, losing it might be a personal concern, since we enjoy good debate.  We should regret to preclude the possibility of significant dialogue, but we must address our actual circumstances.

Short of this measure, it seems more practical to ban users than to attempt to modify their behavior.  There seems to be a population equilibrium in communities:  some natural size to which they tend to grow, and beyond which they do not.  It may be, then, that we shall see other, better-behaved members replace those culled, with a net gain as a civil community.  If not, at least those left will be better able to pursue serious discussion in peace.



Most likely what you will get with this option is a very manila community of all right wing mostly white wrestling fans.  It would certainly lack any significant dialogue, but you would have a lot of people patting each other on the back with very little true diversity of opinion.  Diversity is the spice of life.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 09, 2014, 05:35:47 pm
Of course I know that I'm "one of those" (unfairly, I will add, as all that I do is defend myself against others), but the best thing that the mat.com did was to stop their politics thread.  Ironically, they all moved over here though.

To me, that's an easier fix, but if the choice is made to ban users, I can live with that.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 09, 2014, 05:44:55 pm
Just a suggestion....

Those who post in those two blogs may not see this announcement. I think you should consider posting them there.

Vise,

It appears that Fuhr has granted your request and there is a notice in both of those boards with a link to this thread.

For my part, I do not wish that the politics thread or Evolution thread be taken away.  Perhaps I will suffer banishment but I think these boards are better with healthy discussion in all topics.  I support the temporary lockdown because discussion has gone to kindergartner level in various venues.  Perhaps this will allow us to contemplate the great gift we have been given on theopenmat forums to discuss various topics of the day with serious minded people.  This pause hopefully will cause us all to reflect on the purpose here and conduct ourselves likewise.  There is nothing truly free and we have been warned our behavior might cause a loss of something we all want.  I will redouble my efforts to be more civil. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 09, 2014, 05:53:17 pm
Of course I know that I'm "one of those" (unfairly, I will add, as all that I do is defend myself against others), but the best thing that the mat.com did was to stop their politics thread.  Ironically, they all moved over here though.

To me, that's an easier fix, but if the choice is made to ban users, I can live with that.

In breaking with my long standing creed to ignore you Ban, I think I can make an exception on this thread because it is a bigger moment in the existence of this venue. 

If the best thing themat.com did was get rid of the politics thread, what the heck are you doing on TOM's politics board commenting on it all day long?  Your statement is illogical based on your presence on that board.  If you truly feel that way, stick with the other boards.  You have the clear freedom and liberty to steer clear of it if, as you say, it is better not to have it at all.  It would seem much more logical to avoid that board than comment on it profusely if you truly think it shouldn't be there in the first place. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 09, 2014, 05:54:36 pm
I am thinking whether I will be banned so I probably will be as per logic above.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 09, 2014, 05:59:00 pm
It would be ironic if the politics board were removed, since that action on the other board in large part led to the formation of this one.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 09, 2014, 06:01:40 pm
For awhile, i was unable to post here due to some sort of computer problem. Recently, that seems to have cleared up, but on my visits to the General forum lately, I haven't had any desire to participate in the same old people calling the same old other people the same old names, and on and on and on. Even some of the people with whom I agree often express their opinions in ways that make me reluctant to join in. There are, of course, exceptions, and you know who you are, but for the most part I've been turned off by the level to which the discourse has sunk. I don't consider myself any better or smarter than anyone else on this forum, and I'm probably not as well informed as many, but I know rudeness when I see it.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 09, 2014, 06:22:20 pm
Good post spider.  Hope you hang around and discuss wrestling and other random OT stuff.  I blame no one for not wanting to post on the politics board. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: none on May 09, 2014, 06:26:49 pm
It would be ironic if the politics board were removed, since that action on the other board in large part led to the formation of this one.

First thought that came to my mind too. Not a good reflection on the wrestling community (and I am to blame as much as anybody) that we can't play nicely.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: n9531l on May 09, 2014, 06:52:02 pm
The Politics and Evolution boards have proven valuable to me. Ignoring them in my profile has enabled me to avoid being disturbed by the kinds of posts (and in some cases posters) that appear there, and might otherwise turn up elsewhere in the forums. So I would not want to see those boards go away.

The idea of banning problematic users sounds best to me. If that's the decision, I don't expect anyone will be banned unfairly. But I do expect anyone banned will claim it was unfair.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: none on May 09, 2014, 07:00:12 pm
Hmm, I guess this since this is the new policy, and there really isn't a hell of a lot of wrestling discussion, and I am not a fan of the format change in the wrestling specific areas (far less user friendly), and I have issues with this site and firefox (I get here through explorer and I don't like explorer), and I don't spend money on the sport anymore, I guess there is no reason to come to this site anymore.

I have said for years this sport is it's own worst enemy (almost losing the Olympics, all those lost programs, at war with itself). This is another example.

Weird timing because I just volunteered to coach a couple of firefighters kids (trail work is my new volunteer thing - met them there)..... they asked how much I wanted..... LOL, I said if you want to give me something I won't turn it down, but I'm not looking to get paid.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: TobusRex on May 09, 2014, 07:51:49 pm
It would be ironic if the politics board were removed, since that action on the other board in large part led to the formation of this one.

Haha, definitely. It's weird when I agree with you Bob, but it's still nice to do so from time to time!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 09, 2014, 09:05:27 pm
Of course I know that I'm "one of those" (unfairly, I will add, as all that I do is defend myself against others), but the best thing that the mat.com did was to stop their politics thread.  Ironically, they all moved over here though.

To me, that's an easier fix, but if the choice is made to ban users, I can live with that.
I think I can make an exception on this thread because it is a bigger moment in the existence of this venue. 

Then now is the time to make your plea to the powers that be that I may not be the best person for the newly revamped TOM site, as my track record shows that I'll continue to shoot my mouth off. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 10, 2014, 07:04:09 am
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 10, 2014, 08:45:49 am
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.

Why does this post remind me of the episode of the Twilight Zone, where a madman kept talking about how at high noon all of the evil people will be shrunken down to minature size and thus rendered meaningless, only to shrink down to minature size himself when the clock strikes noon?   8)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 10, 2014, 09:00:18 am
Odd that a board that has not had a single post on it for almost two months would be locked down.  i.e. Evolution.  With no post for two months there obviously has not been a problem.

This was to stop the Evolution category from being a runoff mechanism for politics, with posters turning their attention there.

Most likely what you will get with this option is a very manila community of all right wing mostly white wrestling fans.  It would certainly lack any significant dialogue, but you would have a lot of people patting each other on the back with very little true diversity of opinion.  Diversity is the spice of life.

While I can see where civility might strike you as bland, I can assure you that it is not a quality exclusive to right-wing white people.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 10, 2014, 09:01:45 am
Of course I know that I'm "one of those"

I should prefer that not to be the case, and will correspond with you privately as time allows.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 10, 2014, 09:04:57 am
I am thinking whether I will be banned so I probably will be as per logic above.

I do not want to get into fortune-telling for individuals, but in this case I'll make an exception.  I cannot recall a single instance of your saying something harsh to another user.  The idea of banning you, therefore, is somewhat crazy... and while this admittedly makes it a good fit for your worldview, I nevertheless encourage you not to worry about it much.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 10, 2014, 09:07:13 am
I do not have any idea what events took place to cause this "Mat.com era" type of policy. I have been proud that this site has understood the competitive nature of the wrestling community with the realization that we too like to be challenged philosophically. Sure it seems like constant bickering between 2 sides without open mindedness. However there are many cases where the 2 opposing sides find common ground. In the end, each person sharpens their minds on one another for the most part.  I hope whatever it is truly warrants this.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 10, 2014, 09:19:07 am
It would be ironic if the politics board were removed, since that action on the other board in large part led to the formation of this one.

Not from my perspective.

Trolls and inattentive moderators just make for a shoddy forum.  Moderators who do not participate on a forum are a problem.  Censoring discussion of the forum itself plainly shows that the proprietors don't understand the medium they're operating.

In the short time that I've taken an interest in The Mat Forums (out of a long time I've known about them), I've seen each of these.  I'm thinking that substantive discussion of USA Wrestling itself is probably not safe, there, either.

This is an unacceptable situation.  I'm partly inclined to start making a fuss about it, but no matter what policy changes might be made, there's a conflict of interest there which cannot be avoided.  The government should not hold the reins of political discussion, and USA Wrestling is our government (or one of them, anyway).

Maybe Viratas' motivations were different, but a wrestling board choosing to be on-topic has never struck me as a problem at all.  As for the things which do:  you know and can talk to our moderators and administrators, disciplinary actions to not happen anonymously or without explanation, and people are free to discuss the forum's policies, as we are doing here.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 10, 2014, 09:26:24 am
I do not have any idea what events took place to cause this "Mat.com era" type of policy. I have been proud that this site has understood the competitive nature of the wrestling community with the realization that we too like to be challenged philosophically. Sure it seems like constant bickering between 2 sides without open mindedness. However there are many cases where the 2 opposing sides find common ground. In the end, each person sharpens their minds on one another for the most part.  I hope whatever it is truly warrants this.

Vigorous debate is the best thing we can hope to have, here.  It is for precisely this reason that personal attacks, for instance, are prohibited.  Not because they aren't true:  the person you call a liar or an idiot may actually be one.  But in an environment which permits such things, it becomes difficult or impossible to discuss ideas, and sharpen ourselves as we should wish.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 10, 2014, 09:30:59 am
I understand and I also understand that the moderators do not have time to play policemen. However, I just assumed that when an individual crossed the line, they were just straight up disciplined, or given a "time out" so to speak. I think it is to be expected. Again, I do not know the example that led to the suspension for everybody. As I said, I hope it was well warranted.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 10, 2014, 09:41:48 am
On my end, I just feel a little sorry for all persons on here for the hand that I had in all of this, and I do apologize to everyone for that.

However, I also respect any decision that needs to be made.  I'm probably a better man not taking part in such discussions.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 11:23:47 am
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.

And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators.  My lord ctc you are dense sometimes.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 11:26:49 am
Odd that a board that has not had a single post on it for almost two months would be locked down.  i.e. Evolution.  With no post for two months there obviously has not been a problem.

This was to stop the Evolution category from being a runoff mechanism for politics, with posters turning their attention there.

Most likely what you will get with this option is a very manila community of all right wing mostly white wrestling fans.  It would certainly lack any significant dialogue, but you would have a lot of people patting each other on the back with very little true diversity of opinion.  Diversity is the spice of life.

While I can see where civility might strike you as bland, I can assure you that it is not a quality exclusive to right-wing white people.

Understood but I suspect I will be banned and I have been nothing but civil for the last couple months since my return from Afghanistan.  So it would not be lack of civility that gets me banned but rather the fact that I am an extreme liberal.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 10, 2014, 11:31:28 am
Odd that a board that has not had a single post on it for almost two months would be locked down.  i.e. Evolution.  With no post for two months there obviously has not been a problem.

This was to stop the Evolution category from being a runoff mechanism for politics, with posters turning their attention there.

Most likely what you will get with this option is a very manila community of all right wing mostly white wrestling fans.  It would certainly lack any significant dialogue, but you would have a lot of people patting each other on the back with very little true diversity of opinion.  Diversity is the spice of life.

While I can see where civility might strike you as bland, I can assure you that it is not a quality exclusive to right-wing white people.

Understood but I suspect I will be banned and I have been nothing but civil for the last couple months since my return from Afghanistan.  So it would not be lack of civility that gets me banned but rather the fact that I am an extreme liberal.


You just called someone dense then went on to say how civil you've been.  I honestly have had no complaints on you being combative recently but you do see that calling a poster dense is one of the things Ray is talking about, right?  It adds nothing to the conversation and is solely intended to attack another poster.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 11:51:39 am
Odd that a board that has not had a single post on it for almost two months would be locked down.  i.e. Evolution.  With no post for two months there obviously has not been a problem.

This was to stop the Evolution category from being a runoff mechanism for politics, with posters turning their attention there.

Most likely what you will get with this option is a very manila community of all right wing mostly white wrestling fans.  It would certainly lack any significant dialogue, but you would have a lot of people patting each other on the back with very little true diversity of opinion.  Diversity is the spice of life.

While I can see where civility might strike you as bland, I can assure you that it is not a quality exclusive to right-wing white people.

Understood but I suspect I will be banned and I have been nothing but civil for the last couple months since my return from Afghanistan.  So it would not be lack of civility that gets me banned but rather the fact that I am an extreme liberal.


You just called someone dense then went on to say how civil you've been.  I honestly have had no complaints on you being combative recently but you do see that calling a poster dense is one of the things Ray is talking about, right?  It adds nothing to the conversation and is solely intended to attack another poster.

Come on are your serious.  Speaking the truth is a problem.  You honestly are telling me ctc has never done the things that Ray is talking about that would get someone banned?  If that is true then clearly the banning are based on which way you lean and not truly on the things you post.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 11:58:32 am
Odd that a board that has not had a single post on it for almost two months would be locked down.  i.e. Evolution.  With no post for two months there obviously has not been a problem.

This was to stop the Evolution category from being a runoff mechanism for politics, with posters turning their attention there.

Most likely what you will get with this option is a very manila community of all right wing mostly white wrestling fans.  It would certainly lack any significant dialogue, but you would have a lot of people patting each other on the back with very little true diversity of opinion.  Diversity is the spice of life.

While I can see where civility might strike you as bland, I can assure you that it is not a quality exclusive to right-wing white people.

Understood but I suspect I will be banned and I have been nothing but civil for the last couple months since my return from Afghanistan.  So it would not be lack of civility that gets me banned but rather the fact that I am an extreme liberal.


You just called someone dense then went on to say how civil you've been.  I honestly have had no complaints on you being combative recently but you do see that calling a poster dense is one of the things Ray is talking about, right?  It adds nothing to the conversation and is solely intended to attack another poster.

BTW, it was truly not intended as an attack in any way.  It was simply a statement of truth.  How should I have said it?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 10, 2014, 11:59:24 am
Where did I say anything about ctc?  This is a perfect example coach.  You called someone a name, it was completely unnecessary and when pointed out you try to spin it into something else.  The point was you calling another poster dense, not whether ctc violates rules.  You couldn't make your point without calling him a name, then posted about how civil you are. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 12:07:02 pm
Where did I say anything about ctc?  This is a perfect example coach.  You called someone a name, it was completely unnecessary and when pointed out you try to spin it into something else.  The point was you calling another poster dense, not whether ctc violates rules.  You couldn't make your point without calling him a name, then posted about how civil you are.

I did not call anyone a name, I made a statement about his lack of seeing the truth about himself.  Again, how should I have said it?  Saying someone is dense is talking about their behavior not calling them a name.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: retired on May 10, 2014, 12:24:25 pm
Well I love everyone so I know I'm at no risk of being banned.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 10, 2014, 01:12:31 pm
How should you have said it?
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.
And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators. 


There, same point made and you didn't have to call him a name.  And yes, calling someone dense is calling them a name.  You know this and, IMO, it's a perfect example of what's wrong.  People on both sides of this constant back and forth, feel they can't convey their message unless they take a dig at someone else. 

(http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/i3/536e60de4695f9-09090965)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 01:27:26 pm
Well I love everyone so I know I'm at no risk of being banned.

And we love you buck.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 01:32:05 pm
How should you have said it?
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.
And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators. 


There, same point made and you didn't have to call him a name.  And yes, calling someone dense is calling them a name.  You know this and, IMO, it's a perfect example of what's wrong.  People on both sides of this constant back and forth, feel they can't convey their message unless they take a dig at someone else. 

(http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/i3/536e60de4695f9-09090965)

There what.  Help me out here this is a learning opportunity.  Cutting it off there does not allow me to address him.  Now if I were to do this:

Quote
And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators. ctc, you need to look in the mirror and take an honest assessment of yourself because you are missing what we are all seeing. 


Now that relays what I was trying to get across without using the word dense which basically says the same thing with an economy of words.  Would my above quote pass the test? 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 01:35:11 pm
How should you have said it?
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.
And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators. 


There, same point made and you didn't have to call him a name.  And yes, calling someone dense is calling them a name.  You know this and, IMO, it's a perfect example of what's wrong.  People on both sides of this constant back and forth, feel they can't convey their message unless they take a dig at someone else. 

(http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/i3/536e60de4695f9-09090965)


And no, I still disagree with claiming it was name calling.  My quote does not pass a name calling test.  If I said, ctc you are dense.  Maybe but I said sometimes you can be so dense that does not.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 01:39:13 pm
I would say sometimes you can be so dense to my best friend if she is not picking up on something.  That is not calling her a name.

btw, my best friend is my wife.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 10, 2014, 02:57:54 pm
Sparky, even in your best behavior, you managed to call DR a bigot multiple times and then you cast a net for people with a dispataginging name and put them in it. It is not any different than directly calling people names. Its not difficult to debate without the name calling. Seton Hall and AC are very effective and never call people or groups they disagree with names.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 03:24:53 pm
Sparky, even in your best behavior, you managed to call DR a bigot multiple times and then you cast a net for people with a dispataginging name and put them in it. It is not any different than directly calling people names. Its not difficult to debate without the name calling. Seton Hall and AC are very effective and never call people or groups they disagree with names.

When you hate gays simply for them being that way what do you call it leggy?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 03:26:15 pm
Sometimes you just have to be willing to own up to what you are.  I am willing to and actually proud to own up to the fact that I am extremely liberal and that I have a very blunt honesty in my approach to communication. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 10, 2014, 03:27:21 pm
Sparky, even in your best behavior, you managed to call DR a bigot multiple times and then you cast a net for people with a dispataginging name and put them in it. It is not any different than directly calling people names. Its not difficult to debate without the name calling. Seton Hall and AC are very effective and never call people or groups they disagree with names.


He knows this.  He's mincing words and spinning.  It's his style when it comes to debate.  Why I even try is beyond me because what he wants is to drag people down with him, into the vortex that is Sparky.  He knows exactly what I was saying but refuses to acknowledge it. 
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Ray will feel calling someone dense isn't a prime example of what has precisely lead to where we are.   I'll happily defer to him on that but, to me, it's prime example of someone who can't debate without disparaging. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 10, 2014, 03:31:21 pm
Sparky, even in your best behavior, you managed to call DR a bigot multiple times and then you cast a net for people with a dispataginging name and put them in it. It is not any different than directly calling people names. Its not difficult to debate without the name calling. Seton Hall and AC are very effective and never call people or groups they disagree with names.


He knows this.  He's mincing words and spinning.  It's his style when it comes to debate.  Why I even try is beyond me because what he wants is to drag people down with him, into the vortex that is Sparky.  He knows exactly what I was saying but refuses to acknowledge it. 
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Ray will feel calling someone dense isn't a prime example of what has precisely lead to where we are.   I'll happily defer to him on that but, to me, it's prime example of someone who can't debate without disparaging.

How am I not acknowledging what you said.  I disagree with your claim that it is name calling.  Seriously, it is the way I communicate with all my friends.  Very honestly.  I tell people who want to deny gays their equal rights bigots to their face.  They do not like it much but they do not change their position either so I have no choice but to call them what they are.

As far as the dense thing.  My wife and I use that term regularly toward each other when we are not picking up on something the other has tried to communicate and neither she nor I have ever felt the other was calling us a name, it makes you stop and thing what am I missing and if I cannot figure it out I ask her.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 10, 2014, 08:36:57 pm
I am thinking whether I will be banned so I probably will be as per logic above.

You should not be banned and should not have been banned elsewhere.

So, trippy my man, we disagree...AGAIN.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 10, 2014, 08:56:30 pm
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.

And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators.  My lord ctc you are dense sometimes.

The words "you are"  followed by characterizations of the person you are talking about IS the problem in these discussions. Concentrate on the message being delivered and IGNORE the messenger as a person. You either agree with a message, or disagree with it, or agree/disagree with parts of it.

Discuss that and leave the personality, characteristics, associations, past practices, attitudes, behaviors, likes, dislikes, intelligence, biases, appearance, religion, or anything else about the background of the messenger out of it.

It's about WHAT is being said, not WHO is saying it.

Some may need some practice to alter past approaches to discussion. Others, unfortunately not enough, will not, as they studiously avoid personalities and concentrate on the message.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 10, 2014, 09:16:34 pm
"BTW, it was truly not intended as an attack in any way.  It was simply a statement of truth.  How should I have said it?"

CTC offered a message. You disagreed with his message. You simply say that and leave out the "you are" part.

Being allowed to "say the truth", or what you think that may be the truth, about other posters leads to anarchy. Stick with analysis of the issues of the day.  Other members of the forum are never the issue of the day (unless we see one of them on CNN for some reason).

I don't think anyone will get banned for being liberal. But, they will get banned for persistent ad hominim attacks, I think. And that should happen after appropriate warning (which is what is happening here).
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 11, 2014, 02:15:39 am
It is for precisely this reason that personal attacks, for instance, are prohibited.  Not because they aren't true:  the person you call a liar or an idiot may actually be one.

This statement by Ray should answer your conundrum Sparky.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 11, 2014, 07:57:45 am
Somebody is in blatant violation of forum rules, has been told about it, has been asked to abide by the rules, and then this individual continues to justify his conduct, rebel against mandates, and defy authority.  Just end it.  Ban him.  Don't argue, it isn't debatable.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 10:31:16 am
It is for precisely this reason that personal attacks, for instance, are prohibited.  Not because they aren't true:  the person you call a liar or an idiot may actually be one.

This statement by Ray should answer your conundrum Sparky.

But I did not do those things.  I told ctc that he was being dense by not recognizing that he is one of the most regular violators of the rules too.  And now just above he lets loose with another one. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 10:32:54 am
"BTW, it was truly not intended as an attack in any way.  It was simply a statement of truth.  How should I have said it?"

CTC offered a message. You disagreed with his message. You simply say that and leave out the "you are" part.

Being allowed to "say the truth", or what you think that may be the truth, about other posters leads to anarchy. Stick with analysis of the issues of the day.  Other members of the forum are never the issue of the day (unless we see one of them on CNN for some reason).

I don't think anyone will get banned for being liberal. But, they will get banned for persistent ad hominim attacks, I think. And that should happen after appropriate warning (which is what is happening here).

I hope you are right lkwd but if I were to get banned and ctc was not banned it would be very clear that banning was not meeted out evenly.  He violates the rules almost every single day.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 10:35:38 am
Ban the violators.  It would save my space on my "ignore" list.  Currently, there is no fear of repercussions.

And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators.  My lord ctc you are dense sometimes.

The words "you are"  followed by characterizations of the person you are talking about IS the problem in these discussions. Concentrate on the message being delivered and IGNORE the messenger as a person. You either agree with a message, or disagree with it, or agree/disagree with parts of it.

Discuss that and leave the personality, characteristics, associations, past practices, attitudes, behaviors, likes, dislikes, intelligence, biases, appearance, religion, or anything else about the background of the messenger out of it.

It's about WHAT is being said, not WHO is saying it.

Some may need some practice to alter past approaches to discussion. Others, unfortunately not enough, will not, as they studiously avoid personalities and concentrate on the message.

This message is very good.  It is hard to follow sometimes when you have been attacked. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 10:45:15 am
So I am curious SVV and lkwd I assume you both agree with fuhr that this was inappropriate.

And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators.  My lord ctc you are dense sometimes.

Again, I regularly say thing like that to friends who are not picking up on a message and it is not big deal but ok, you guys are sensitive.  If I had said it this way, which basically says the same thing would it be better.  I asked fuhr this question but he did not answer.

Quote
And he cannot even recognize he is one of the violators. ctc, you need to look in the mirror and take an honest assessment of yourself because you are missing what we are all seeing. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 11, 2014, 10:53:22 am
So, would this first post below be considered a violation of the rules:


http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,31293.0.html
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 10:59:53 am
So, would this first post below be considered a violation of the rules:


http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,31293.0.html

tada
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 11:32:56 am
So, would this first post below be considered a violation of the rules:


http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,31293.0.html

Or how bout this one from the same thread only a little further down?


Quote
ctc
Get a Job
Posts: 10827


Re: Did trippy really start a thread about racism?

« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2014, 09:05:07 pm »


Wow!!!  I start a thread and it attracts all the loons I have on ignore.

Several are on "ignore".   I won't argue with the ignorant and disrespectful..
 "People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive" ~ Blaise Pascal
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 11, 2014, 11:40:41 am
We all need to worry about ourselves first and foremost. Let the mods sort em out.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 11:46:59 am
Yes, the mods promised to take action against personal attacks a couple years ago.  So instead of replying I started sending a mod report when I felt attacked.  The mods did not follow through with getting the attackers to stop so I pretty much went back to my old ways responding to the attacks in kind.  I always felt it was because the mods agreed with those who were attacking me and did not want to discipline their friends.  I could be wrong but that was how it felt.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on May 11, 2014, 11:51:47 am
There is a reason we had a timeout (I am a part of it). There is a reason we cannot edit posts. There is a common thread between these two things. That seems like something that is fixable.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 12:12:25 pm
There is a reason we had a timeout (I am a part of it). There is a reason we cannot edit posts. There is a common thread between these two things. That seems like something that is fixable.

And what would the fix be bryce.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: acguns on May 11, 2014, 01:01:04 pm
WE INTERRUPT REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING FOR THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE:



(http://hqwallpapers.org/wallpapers/l/1366x768/28/digital_art_test_pattern_emergency_broadcast_system_1366x768_27212.jpg)




LET IT GO..... MOVE ON..... EVERYONE HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY.....

THIS CONCLUDES OUR MESSAGE
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 11, 2014, 02:22:49 pm
Yes, the mods promised to take action against personal attacks a couple years ago.  So instead of replying I started sending a mod report when I felt attacked.  The mods did not follow through with getting the attackers to stop so I pretty much went back to my old ways responding to the attacks in kind.  I always felt it was because the mods agreed with those who were attacking me and did not want to discipline their friends.  I could be wrong but that was how it felt.


Can you cite a specific example.  I mostly just clean up language, and know I have done so at your request, as well as others.  I haven't seen you report a personal attack on yourself in a long time.  Not saying I see all of them before they are taken care of by someone else.  Why I ask is, do you know Ray or V do NOT warn the perpetrators?   I know people who have gotten time outs for a few days and no one would know it but Ray, V, and the person who made the infraction unless they shared it themselves. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 05:10:52 pm

Can you cite a specific example.  I mostly just clean up language, and know I have done so at your request, as well as others.  I haven't seen you report a personal attack on yourself in a long time.  Not saying I see all of them before they are taken care of by someone else.  Why I ask is, do you know Ray or V do NOT warn the perpetrators?   I know people who have gotten time outs for a few days and no one would know it but Ray, V, and the person who made the infraction unless they shared it themselves.

Like I said this was a couple of years ago fuhr and I cannot remember any specific instances.  I do recall one of the mods telling me to give it a rest and stop reporting every little infraction.  I believe it was V.  And you are right I probably never even knew if anything was done.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 11, 2014, 05:12:02 pm
Still curious as to what you think the fix would be bryce? 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 12, 2014, 10:08:52 am
And even in this thread, we see why the General and Evolution boards have been temporarily shutdown. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 12, 2014, 10:35:44 am
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"- Shakespeare
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 12, 2014, 10:53:30 am
And even in this thread, we see why the General and Evolution boards have been temporarily shutdown. 

mspart

Odd, I think we have had a very productive and enlightening discussion.  Wonder why you do not see the same thing.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 12, 2014, 10:54:01 am
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"- Shakespeare

If expressing your honest feelings is protesting then I guess.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SingletSlinger on May 12, 2014, 11:38:34 am
Ban them all I say, BAN THEM!  Use the ban stick and use it heavily!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 12, 2014, 12:12:28 pm
I now have my first significant block of free time since Friday.  I will attempt to address some of what was said here, though it is not likely I will be able to be thorough about it.

I am going to leave the lock in place until we have reached some reasonable understanding.  This understanding may involve a change in the status of particular users or forum policy, or it may not.  I see no sense, however, in reverting to an unacceptable situation having resolved nothing.

For my part, I have liked this forum better in the last three days than I have in a long time.  Making this lockdown permanent seems a better idea than it did a few days ago, and I think very little conversation of any value would be lost.  That said, I have not made any decisions.  If Viratas and I had already made up our minds to ban one or more users, I would not put on a show of consideration; it would be done.  Likewise if we had settled on a permanent policy change.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 12, 2014, 12:31:16 pm
For awhile, i was unable to post here due to some sort of computer problem. Recently, that seems to have cleared up, but on my visits to the General forum lately, I haven't had any desire to participate in the same old people calling the same old other people the same old names, and on and on and on. Even some of the people with whom I agree often express their opinions in ways that make me reluctant to join in. There are, of course, exceptions, and you know who you are, but for the most part I've been turned off by the level to which the discourse has sunk. I don't consider myself any better or smarter than anyone else on this forum, and I'm probably not as well informed as many, but I know rudeness when I see it.

Yes, and this is really the key of the whole thing.  We must make a choice as to what kind of discourse we want to have here.

If we allowed anything whatsoever, the place would be filled with links for cheap viagra and porn, and even the poor conversations we have been having would be crowded out.  Having decided to keep that sort of thing out, we are now overrun with insults, personal quarrels, and mindless propaganda.  Only one sort of dialogue will predominate, here, and it will be of the lowest sort that we allow.  If one person tells us he has been disinclined to speak here because of our low standards, we can be sure dozens of other people have left without telling us.

Moderation is not a solution for this; it is totally unrealistic to think that we will police the actions of people who want to drag down the level of discourse, and keep them in line by enforcing rules piecemeal.  We need to cultivate a community of mature people who are interested in getting along, and discussing their ideas and differences... and, of course, wrestling.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 12, 2014, 12:46:01 pm
So, would this first post below be considered a violation of the rules:

http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,31293.0.html

Yes, and it's also a good example of what's wrong with our discourse, here.  Discussing politics and discussing each other are two very different things.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 12, 2014, 12:52:06 pm
There is a reason we cannot edit posts.

Actually, the reason we cannot edit posts is technical, and related to the session timeouts.  Editing is supposed to be possible, within a short period of time after the post.  The problem began with a software update awhile back which did not go smoothly, and I have not gotten around to hunting down and fixing the problems.

If a decision had been made to stop editing altogether, I would have posted an announcement.  I prefer to be direct about policy decisions.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 12, 2014, 02:19:59 pm
We need to cultivate a community of mature people who are interested in getting along, and discussing their ideas and differences... and, of course, wrestling.

This is key.  It is something that should not have to be said. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 12, 2014, 04:13:05 pm
Did somebody say something about cheap viagra?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 12, 2014, 04:21:13 pm
Did somebody say something about cheap viagra?

Not for you, no. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 12, 2014, 05:13:27 pm
Are you going to reopen the politics thread?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 12, 2014, 05:18:48 pm
Are you going to reopen the politics thread?

Not today.  I need to address what's been said here, and I think we need to come to an understanding before anything is unlocked.  I do not have time to do a good job of replying to some of the posts just now, but I intend to get to them very shortly.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 12, 2014, 06:56:23 pm
Just my 2 cents worth (and it isn't even worth that much) let the politics and religion forums die.  The value added is negligible at best and the cost in effort to moderate is too high.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 12, 2014, 07:56:11 pm
I vote banning in the political thread. I vote dumping the religious/evolution thread.

It's good to have a place to discuss issues of the day. They will surface on message boards somewhere anyway.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 12, 2014, 07:56:24 pm
People are certainly free to participate or not on any given thread,

This website was founded in no small part on the the concept of a free and open debate. I hope that it remains true to its founding ideals.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on May 12, 2014, 08:04:48 pm
Magistrate!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 12, 2014, 08:21:09 pm
I vote banning in the political thread. I vote dumping the religious/evolution thread.

It's good to have a place to discuss issues of the day. They will surface on message boards somewhere anyway.

Disappointing to hear...
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 12, 2014, 08:37:50 pm
I vote banning in the political thread. I vote dumping the religious/evolution thread.

It's good to have a place to discuss issues of the day. They will surface on message boards somewhere anyway.

Disappointing to hear...

I can't imagine any type of religious discussion that wouldn't involve issues of the day and thus be political. Keep the political thread with robust standards for discussion.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Wire on May 13, 2014, 01:28:25 pm
I vote banning in the political thread. I vote dumping the religious/evolution thread.

It's good to have a place to discuss issues of the day. They will surface on message boards somewhere anyway.

I agree .... I rarely come over to this site anymore.

1. Very little Wrestling content or activity on the wrestling forum. Too many people are spending all their time on the other non wrestling topics.

2. Also, the few times I visited the "Other Topics" forums ... WOW !!! What a toxic mess !!! Those threads, topics, and BS do not belong on a Wrestling Web Site.  Period.

I am actually surprised it took so long for the Mods to act with regards to the "Other Topics" ...

Most of you realize you can finds hundreds if not more political sites to participate in ... right?

Maybe the wrestling threads/discussions will "pick up" in volume and content.

Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on May 13, 2014, 02:22:05 pm
dump both of those forums and make it so any discussion of those topics in the Off-Topic gets you an adult timeout
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 13, 2014, 02:27:12 pm
gets you an adult timeout

That sounds appealing.  Where can I go to get one of those?

(I'm probably trying to make a joke at the wrong person, but my self-amusing sense of humor wouldn't allow me to resist).
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 13, 2014, 02:58:18 pm
An "adult" time out sounds fun as long as the girls are cute!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 13, 2014, 03:40:12 pm
Its been 4 days now.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 13, 2014, 03:54:06 pm
Its been 4 days now.

I think someone shows a bit too much anticipation for the reigns to be lifted.... makes me think of this.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"- Shakespeare
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 13, 2014, 03:57:25 pm
I vote banning in the political thread. I vote dumping the religious/evolution thread.

It's good to have a place to discuss issues of the day. They will surface on message boards somewhere anyway.

I agree .... I rarely come over to this site anymore.

1. Very little Wrestling content or activity on the wrestling forum. Too many people are spending all their time on the other non wrestling topics.

2. Also, the few times I visited the "Other Topics" forums ... WOW !!! What a toxic mess !!! Those threads, topics, and BS do not belong on a Wrestling Web Site.  Period.

I am actually surprised it took so long for the Mods to act with regards to the "Other Topics" ...

Most of you realize you can finds hundreds if not more political sites to participate in ... right?

Maybe the wrestling threads/discussions will "pick up" in volume and content.

I've been a member of forums related to different topics ... wrestling, MMA, cellphones, TV/audio, cars, etc.  They've all had an "Other Topics" section, and they seem worthwhile.  They allow people with a common interest to discuss topics other than just that common interest.  The issue is not the opportunity to talk about something other than wrestling.  The issue is having a certain level of decorum.  A cesspool only becomes a cesspool if you allow the crap to accumulate there.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 13, 2014, 04:00:35 pm
Its been 4 days now.

I think someone shows a bit too much anticipation for the reigns to be lifted.... makes me think of this.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"- Shakespeare

(https://englishedithelp.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/words1.jpg?w=300&h=200)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 13, 2014, 04:18:13 pm
Agreed with both above posts.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 13, 2014, 04:28:59 pm
Its been 4 days now.

I think someone shows a bit too much anticipation for the reigns to be lifted.... makes me think of this.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"- Shakespeare

(https://englishedithelp.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/words1.jpg?w=300&h=200)

So the follow on question then is what, pray tell, do you think it means?  And yet again, what do you think, I think it means?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 13, 2014, 04:55:46 pm

I vote banning in the political thread. I vote dumping the religious/evolution thread.

It's good to have a place to discuss issues of the day. They will surface on message boards somewhere anyway.

I think I agree with this.  Thanks Steve.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 13, 2014, 05:01:28 pm
In keeping with my cesspool theme, I think the religion/evolution section, to some degree, was purposely created to keep the other boards from getting polluted - because as lkwdsteve suggested, topics that don't have their own section tend to creep into the others anyway.  In that regard, it was/is kind of an intentional septic tank.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 13, 2014, 05:39:06 pm
I have been in favor or banning repeat offenders, but I think temporary suspensions would accomplish the same thing. Unless they dont get the hint. And there are a couple on here that I think wont.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 13, 2014, 07:19:56 pm
Both sections are cesspools that neither bans nor suspensions will fix.  Myself included, it is too easy to get drawn into petty tit for tats that degenerate quickly.  It isn't just one or two people that spoil it for everyone, we are all guilty of name calling, baiting, and all around bad mouthing.  Both forums have outlived their usefulness and there are plenty of forums on the net to get your liberal/conservative or whatever bashing in.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 13, 2014, 07:47:25 pm
There are people on here, however, from whom I learn things on those boards, and I'm sure others do too. Be a shame to lose that, since those people wouldn't be on other forums.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 13, 2014, 08:12:59 pm
There are people on here, however, from whom I learn things on those boards, and I'm sure others do too. Be a shame to lose that, since those people wouldn't be on other forums.
This is absolutely correct.  I greatly love and appreciate opposing viewpoints.  It helps me to consider and evaluate all sides. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 13, 2014, 08:41:19 pm
In theory that all sounds well and good, in reality it has turned into an armpit.  We can learn plenty about each other via wrestling and other related discussions without the political and religious garbage.  The internet is full of those forums.  If I were to make a guess, and I could be dead wrong, I would say the politics and religion forums are toast.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 13, 2014, 08:53:48 pm
Agree with only part of that. I'm not interested in other forums for politics or current events.

On the old NWT forum it was nice to present positions and put them forward for "peer review". A first for me to do it in writing.  I took some criticisms seriously and reviewed them to see if my positions should be refined or changed completely.

That's not the case here. Much of the political section posts here cannot be taken seriously, eventhough subject matter is often important and should be talked about.  Too many predetermined responses based on who is posting rather than what is being written. Attack and counterattack. That's what happens in politics and perhaps it's inevitable that it would happen on a message board labelled POLITICS. This also leads to way too many posts. There should be less activity.

The more I think about it, I believe that the political thread should be dumped and REPLACED with a subsection called "CURRENT EVENTS". Things will happen that will cry for discussion and sharing of opinions. It should contain some politics to be sure, but I think it may be containable.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 13, 2014, 08:56:34 pm
I'm saying that I learn things about politics and religion from certain people on those boards. There are actually people who make legit contributions on those topics. Unfortunately, in the current state, those legit contributions get buried, and the people if like to hear from are less inclined to post.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 13, 2014, 09:03:04 pm
Are we just playing the semantics game now?

Gallan, Sparky, Ban and ctc need to go.  Period.  Sparky and Ban are just paying lip service right now to cover their arse.  If I need to go as well for not beating around the bush, then fine. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 13, 2014, 09:06:29 pm
With any given topic it is pretty easy to predict what everyone's responses will look like.   The useful signal to noise ratio is too low to have meaningful discussions.  Another thought is to suspend both sections for the summer and see if anyone misses it.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 13, 2014, 09:16:58 pm
With any given topic it is pretty easy to predict what everyone's responses will look like.   The useful signal to noise ratio is too low to have meaningful discussions.  Another thought is to suspend both sections for the summer and see if anyone misses it.

Good idea.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 13, 2014, 10:39:20 pm
Sparky and Ban are just paying lip service right now to cover their arse. 

Must have missed these comments of mine much earlier in this thread.

Reply #4: "Of course I know that I'm "one of those" (unfairly, I will add, as all that I do is defend myself against others), but the best thing that the mat.com did was to stop their politics thread.  Ironically, they all moved over here though.

To me, that's an easier fix, but if the choice is made to ban users, I can live with that."


Reply # 15:  "Then now is the time to make your plea to the powers that be that I may not be the best person for the newly revamped TOM site, as my track record shows that I'll continue to shoot my mouth off."


I wasn't trying to cover anything earlier, and I'm still not trying to cover anything now.  I'll respect any decision that is made.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 14, 2014, 08:21:34 am
Are we just playing the semantics game now?

Gallan, Sparky, Ban and ctc need to go.  Period.  Sparky and Ban are just paying lip service right now to cover their arse.  If I need to go as well for not beating around the bush, then fine.
That is for the mods to decide.  I agree that some posters need to go.  I have no comment about myself.  That would be foolish for me to say anything.  I have not named any posters as you have.  That in itself is a violation of forum rules and spewing directed hatred.  All of your attacks and f-bombs leave you on the fence.  Clear violation of the rules.  Thank you for another attack against me. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 14, 2014, 09:38:17 am
Both sections are cesspools that neither bans nor suspensions will fix.  Myself included, it is too easy to get drawn into petty tit for tats that degenerate quickly.  It isn't just one or two people that spoil it for everyone, we are all guilty of name calling, baiting, and all around bad mouthing.  Both forums have outlived their usefulness and there are plenty of forums on the net to get your liberal/conservative or whatever bashing in.

While I do not agree with the sections having outlivied their usefulness, I do agree with everyone on these forums have done what is being discussed as infractions which would require suspension.  Heck, even seen some of it on the wrestling sections.  Not a person on here, not even Ray, V or Jason can claim to be exempt from that statement.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 14, 2014, 09:41:37 am
Are we just playing the semantics game now?

Gallan, Sparky, Ban and ctc need to go.  Period.  Sparky and Ban are just paying lip service right now to cover their arse.  If I need to go as well for not beating around the bush, then fine.

Really stephan, and how do you claim to know this?  Perhaps we would actually like a civil discussion where people actually had to treat us civilly as well as the other way around?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 14, 2014, 10:19:43 am
Both sections are cesspools that neither bans nor suspensions will fix.  Myself included, it is too easy to get drawn into petty tit for tats that degenerate quickly.  It isn't just one or two people that spoil it for everyone, we are all guilty of name calling, baiting, and all around bad mouthing.  Both forums have outlived their usefulness and there are plenty of forums on the net to get your liberal/conservative or whatever bashing in.
Not a person on here, not even Ray, V or Jason can claim to be exempt from that statement.

Truer words have not been spoken, and why I can't imagine how this process is going to work with any kind of rhyme or reason.

Regarding the names that you dropped above as being "violators," I would exempt two of them from that claim.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 14, 2014, 02:13:47 pm
I'm saying that I learn things about politics and religion from certain people on those boards. There are actually people who make legit contributions on those topics. Unfortunately, in the current state, those legit contributions get buried, and the people if like to hear from are less inclined to post.

Same goes for me and I would hate to see these topics eliminated. I'm constantly impressed by the knowledge, wisdom and diverse opinions expressed by members of the wrestling community. Regarding who should be banned, once any changes have been put into place and the rules spelled out, everyone should start off with a clean slate. It's a new ballgame.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on May 14, 2014, 02:29:50 pm
I love the actual "Off-Topic" board.  there's generally a level of decorum there even between groups that historically haven't gotten along on the Politics or Evo boards.  What I don't want to see happen is there be a run on those boards if we cut the Poli and Evo boards.  The reason the Off-Topic board works is because it doesn't get polluted with other crap.  That stuff gets flushed into the Poli & Evo.

As to the no real content on the wrestling board that was posted earlier...really?  Is anyone else posting daily podcasts?  if you want to discuss something so badly you're wholly capable of starting your own thread posing a question or having a view point.  There isn't a whole lot to discuss this time of year regarding College.  You'd find the high school and even international threads pretty busy though.

Again if we jettison the Poli and Evo then I think that IF someone tries to take a dump in the Off-Topic board they should be banned.  Make it a 1, 2, You're out thing.  No reason for three strikes.

Oh and I think it would be very difficult to say that Ray contributes to anything negatively on Poli board when he weighs in.  he is the one guy on here who (and to an extent n9 when he actually chooses to interract) remains nothing if not on point and emotionally uninvolved. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 14, 2014, 03:00:38 pm
Three days is now five. Is there a change of policy?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 14, 2014, 03:04:04 pm
I am going to leave the lock in place until we have reached some reasonable understanding.  This understanding may involve a change in the status of particular users or forum policy, or it may not.  I see no sense, however, in reverting to an unacceptable situation having resolved nothing.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 14, 2014, 03:30:07 pm
Three days is now five. Is there a change of policy?

And yet another protest.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 14, 2014, 05:02:42 pm
In the politics section of this forum we have:
1. General
2. Wrestling
3. The Open Mat

I would totally eliminate this section and move or eliminate the three subjections.



Open a "Current Events" subsection under Miscellaneous. This is a STRONG suggestion.

Combine the "The Open Mat" political subjection with "TheMat.com Refugees" subsection and situate under the "Site" section.

Eliminate the "Wrestling" political subsection, since it seems fairly certain that the various topics created there can be housed comfortably in the various "wrestling" section subsections (international, college, high school, officiating).

Evolution/religion I have mixed feelings about. There have been real world events, such as the PA court case regarding teaching creationism, or intelligent design (whichever it was). I regard that as a current event type topic that was very worthy of discussion. There are other examples of events in the last ten years that combined both religion and politics as a basis for discussion (nativity scenes, Pledge of Allegiance, Muslim attire in the workplace, etc.). I still see these all as current events type things. The actual sciences supporting evolution, or countering evolution, I believe, are topics for more technical websites.

I suppose I'd try creating a "science in religion  and politics" subsection under Miscellaneous which could include, for example, evolution and global warming". Perhaps.

Just thinking out loud here.


Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 14, 2014, 05:04:53 pm
I am going to leave the lock in place until we have reached some reasonable understanding.  This understanding may involve a change in the status of particular users or forum policy, or it may not.  I see no sense, however, in reverting to an unacceptable situation having resolved nothing.

How is the "reasonable understanding" being measured? Does it appear within reach at his point?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 14, 2014, 05:37:27 pm
I am going to leave the lock in place until we have reached some reasonable understanding.  This understanding may involve a change in the status of particular users or forum policy, or it may not.  I see no sense, however, in reverting to an unacceptable situation having resolved nothing.
Reminds me of a song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqXmBy1_qOQ
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 14, 2014, 06:05:49 pm
I love the actual "Off-Topic" board.  there's generally a level of decorum there even between groups that historically haven't gotten along on the Politics or Evo boards.  What I don't want to see happen is there be a run on those boards if we cut the Poli and Evo boards.  The reason the Off-Topic board works is because it doesn't get polluted with other crap.  That stuff gets flushed into the Poli & Evo.

As to the no real content on the wrestling board that was posted earlier...really?  Is anyone else posting daily podcasts?  if you want to discuss something so badly you're wholly capable of starting your own thread posing a question or having a view point.  There isn't a whole lot to discuss this time of year regarding College.  You'd find the high school and even international threads pretty busy though.

Again if we jettison the Poli and Evo then I think that IF someone tries to take a dump in the Off-Topic board they should be banned.  Make it a 1, 2, You're out thing.  No reason for three strikes.

Oh and I think it would be very difficult to say that Ray contributes to anything negatively on Poli board when he weighs in.  he is the one guy on here who (and to an extent n9 when he actually chooses to interract) remains nothing if not on point and emotionally uninvolved.


You have to admit, especially in the "off" season, the conversations are fewer and more shortly lived. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 14, 2014, 06:38:16 pm
In the politics section of this forum we have:
1. General
2. Wrestling
3. The Open Mat

I would totally eliminate this section and move or eliminate the three subjections.



Open a "Current Events" subsection under Miscellaneous. This is a STRONG suggestion.

Combine the "The Open Mat" political subjection with "TheMat.com Refugees" subsection and situate under the "Site" section.

Eliminate the "Wrestling" political subsection, since it seems fairly certain that the various topics created there can be housed comfortably in the various "wrestling" section subsections (international, college, high school, officiating).

Evolution/religion I have mixed feelings about. There have been real world events, such as the PA court case regarding teaching creationism, or intelligent design (whichever it was). I regard that as a current event type topic that was very worthy of discussion. There are other examples of events in the last ten years that combined both religion and politics as a basis for discussion (nativity scenes, Pledge of Allegiance, Muslim attire in the workplace, etc.). I still see these all as current events type things. The actual sciences supporting evolution, or countering evolution, I believe, are topics for more technical websites.

I suppose I'd try creating a "science in religion  and politics" subsection under Miscellaneous which could include, for example, evolution and global warming". Perhaps.

Just thinking out loud here.

I like all of this as a start.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 14, 2014, 06:41:50 pm
In the interim, until a final decision is made, how should we determine if a topic should fall under the Off-Topic or Political categories?  I would hate to make the mistake a couple of times and have the mods think I was trying to use the back door to get political topics on the board.

One example of a "current event" in today's paper had to do with local (Hillsborough County, FL) government offering the option of single gender magnet schools.  I THINK that discussing the merits of all-boys and all-girls schools relative to the education environment and results would be suitable for Off-Topic, but in this particular case, the ACLU has become involved, which might kick it into the Political forum.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 14, 2014, 06:48:45 pm
Speaking of which, just listend to "how the aclu works" on stuff you should know.  Always a good listen, wasn't a particularly great episode but informing.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 14, 2014, 09:53:27 pm
In the politics section of this forum we have:
1. General
2. Wrestling
3. The Open Mat

I would totally eliminate this section and move or eliminate the three subjections.



Open a "Current Events" subsection under Miscellaneous. This is a STRONG suggestion.

Combine the "The Open Mat" political subjection with "TheMat.com Refugees" subsection and situate under the "Site" section.

Eliminate the "Wrestling" political subsection, since it seems fairly certain that the various topics created there can be housed comfortably in the various "wrestling" section subsections (international, college, high school, officiating).

Evolution/religion I have mixed feelings about. There have been real world events, such as the PA court case regarding teaching creationism, or intelligent design (whichever it was). I regard that as a current event type topic that was very worthy of discussion. There are other examples of events in the last ten years that combined both religion and politics as a basis for discussion (nativity scenes, Pledge of Allegiance, Muslim attire in the workplace, etc.). I still see these all as current events type things. The actual sciences supporting evolution, or countering evolution, I believe, are topics for more technical websites.

I suppose I'd try creating a "science in religion  and politics" subsection under Miscellaneous which could include, for example, evolution and global warming". Perhaps.

Just thinking out loud here.

I'm not sure that changing the name of the board or placing it somewhere else will change the way the topics are discussed.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 15, 2014, 07:10:42 am
Once upon a time, the Iowa Rivals forum had a poster on it that ALWAYS caused trouble and used personal attacks.  Many long time posters quit posting on there.  It became a pissing contest.  Finally the admin banned a poster.  Quickly the board regained its appeal and some of the posters began to return.  I'm sure fuhr remembers this.  The solution is simple.  Yes, the same poster banned there posts here.  Same results.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 15, 2014, 07:51:03 am
Once upon a time, the Iowa Rivals forum had a poster on it that ALWAYS caused trouble and used personal attacks.  Many long time posters quit posting on there.  It became a pissing contest.  Finally the admin banned a poster.  Quickly the board regained its appeal and some of the posters began to return.  I'm sure fuhr remembers this.  The solution is simple.  Yes, the same poster banned there posts here.  Same results.

Well, that sounds encouraging for me!  I never even knew that such a board exists until now, so "that guy" couldn't have been me!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SingletSlinger on May 15, 2014, 08:26:47 am
Come on Ray, don't hesitate to use it

(http://www.jakemediaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/BanStick-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 15, 2014, 10:06:50 am
Once upon a time, the Iowa Rivals forum had a poster on it that ALWAYS caused trouble and used personal attacks.  Many long time posters quit posting on there.  It became a pissing contest.  Finally the admin banned a poster.  Quickly the board regained its appeal and some of the posters began to return.  I'm sure fuhr remembers this.  The solution is simple.  Yes, the same poster banned there posts here.  Same results.

Inaccurate statements.  First, nobody stopped posting on the board, not even for a short time.  The issue was people who were supporters of Zalesky v Brands and then the issue of the 5 guys from Virg Tech who had to sit a year when Brands was hired.  There was a lot of anomosity around that time some people did not like someone not toeing the Black and Gold line but taking a rational reasonable approach to the issue.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 15, 2014, 10:09:03 am
Once upon a time, the Iowa Rivals forum had a poster on it that ALWAYS caused trouble and used personal attacks.  Many long time posters quit posting on there.  It became a pissing contest.  Finally the admin banned a poster.  Quickly the board regained its appeal and some of the posters began to return.  I'm sure fuhr remembers this.  The solution is simple.  Yes, the same poster banned there posts here.  Same results.

Well, that sounds encouraging for me!  I never even knew that such a board exists until now, so "that guy" couldn't have been me!

It was the Hawkeye Report site ban.  I don't know if you would be interested as you are not really that big a Hawk fan are you?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 15, 2014, 10:13:42 am
Once upon a time, the Iowa Rivals forum had a poster on it that ALWAYS caused trouble and used personal attacks.  Many long time posters quit posting on there.  It became a pissing contest.  Finally the admin banned a poster.  Quickly the board regained its appeal and some of the posters began to return.  I'm sure fuhr remembers this.  The solution is simple.  Yes, the same poster banned there posts here.  Same results.

Well, that sounds encouraging for me!  I never even knew that such a board exists until now, so "that guy" couldn't have been me!

It was the Hawkeye Report site ban.  I don't know if you would be interested as you are not really that big a Hawk fan are you?

No, I'd likely be the worst thorn in everyone's side over there they've ever seen!  I'm much better off on panthernation.com, which is a very cordial and friendly site anyway.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 15, 2014, 10:25:08 am
Come on Ray, don't hesitate to use it

(http://www.jakemediaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/BanStick-1.jpg)

I'm not sure that I could agree more!  As we always said in Minnesota, what's good for the goose is good for the gander!  Or, another way of looking at it, "be careful for what you wish for."   ;)

Pages 1 and 2 provide us with some pretty "banable material," I'd say.    http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17316;area=showposts;start=0
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 15, 2014, 11:15:32 am
Come on Ray, don't hesitate to use it

(http://www.jakemediaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/BanStick-1.jpg)

I'm not sure that I could agree more!  As we always said in Minnesota, what's good for the goose is good for the gander!  Or, another way of looking at it, "be careful for what you wish for."   ;)

Pages 1 and 2 provide us with some pretty "banable material," I'd say.    http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17316;area=showposts;start=0

Wow, I would guess so and those are not even from the politics board.  Why'd he get his panties in such a bunch?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 15, 2014, 11:32:15 am
Come on Ray, don't hesitate to use it

(http://www.jakemediaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/BanStick-1.jpg)

I'm not sure that I could agree more!  As we always said in Minnesota, what's good for the goose is good for the gander!  Or, another way of looking at it, "be careful for what you wish for."   ;)

Pages 1 and 2 provide us with some pretty "banable material," I'd say.    http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17316;area=showposts;start=0

Wow, I would guess so and those are not even from the politics board.  Why'd he get his panties in such a bunch?

Can't speak for why he has the issue with Kentucky wrestler, but ,regarding myself, I can only conclude that he's either (1) Bob Dole himself or (2) a friend of the Dole family.

Again, fair is fair, and if he wants to beg for bans, well...
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 16, 2014, 12:07:14 pm
I have been sick the past few days, and have not had much energy for business.  I am starting to feel better, and hope to get back to this shortly.  In the interim, there have been a number of thoughtful comments; these are appreciated.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 16, 2014, 04:53:05 pm
Being sick sucks, hope you feel better.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 16, 2014, 10:43:21 pm
+1
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: FalconWrestlingKY on May 16, 2014, 10:52:02 pm
as moderator and lord of the mighty ban hammer you aren't allowed to be sick!


In all seriousness hope you feel better
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 17, 2014, 10:25:04 am
the mighty ban hammer

It's too late now,  but that would ahve been a great nickname for me during my illustrious wrestling career.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 19, 2014, 04:03:57 pm
Crickets!!!

Reminds of a time when I was in the band and we were playing this dive.  We were going into Baby I'm Amazed by Wings.  Our keyboardist hit the piano run like he always did with the top notes tinkling and then a pause.  In that pause, a cue ball hitting some other ball was very distinctly heard and we all cracked up and barely started the song properly.  Talk about crickets!!

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 19, 2014, 04:10:35 pm
I think there are crickets because basically everyone who wanted to say something has had their say, and we're just awaiting the outcome at this point.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 19, 2014, 05:42:04 pm
Crickets!!!

Reminds of a time when I was in the band and we were playing this dive.  We were going into Baby I'm Amazed by Wings.  Our keyboardist hit the piano run like he always did with the top notes tinkling and then a pause.  In that pause, a cue ball hitting some other ball was very distinctly heard and we all cracked up and barely started the song properly.  Talk about crickets!!

mspart

Not sure why it is such an intense pet peeve of mine, but it's Maybe, I'm Amazed.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 19, 2014, 06:13:56 pm
Crickets!!!

Reminds of a time when I was in the band and we were playing this dive.  We were going into Baby I'm Amazed by Wings.  Our keyboardist hit the piano run like he always did with the top notes tinkling and then a pause.  In that pause, a cue ball hitting some other ball was very distinctly heard and we all cracked up and barely started the song properly.  Talk about crickets!!

mspart

Not sure why it is such an intense pet peeve of mine, but it's Maybe, I'm Amazed.

You are correct.  My apologies to your intense pet.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 19, 2014, 11:28:29 pm
Crickets!!!

Reminds of a time when I was in the band and we were playing this dive.  We were going into Baby I'm Amazed by Wings.  Our keyboardist hit the piano run like he always did with the top notes tinkling and then a pause.  In that pause, a cue ball hitting some other ball was very distinctly heard and we all cracked up and barely started the song properly.  Talk about crickets!!

mspart

Not sure why it is such an intense pet peeve of mine, but it's Maybe, I'm Amazed.

You are correct.  My apologies to your intense pet.

mspart

No need to apologize.  I came off a bit more harsh than I needed to.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 20, 2014, 11:02:37 am
Crickets!!!

Reminds of a time when I was in the band and we were playing this dive.  We were going into Baby I'm Amazed by Wings.  Our keyboardist hit the piano run like he always did with the top notes tinkling and then a pause.  In that pause, a cue ball hitting some other ball was very distinctly heard and we all cracked up and barely started the song properly.  Talk about crickets!!

mspart

Not sure why it is such an intense pet peeve of mine, but it's Maybe, I'm Amazed.

You are correct.  My apologies to your intense pet.

mspart

No need to apologize.  I came off a bit more harsh than I needed to.

 :D

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 20, 2014, 04:03:19 pm
Just as an update:  I am now fine, and have been reading this discussion again.  Being sick gave me quite some free time to watch the forum, without much inclination to say much.  As things stand right now, I would have to say that this is a much, much better place than it was a fortnight ago.  So much so that it's hard to see a reason to start making replies to particular users who have caused trouble, for the sake of bringing back political discussion which seldom amounted to much.

Good, open, civil political debate is a great thing.  It's also hard to achieve.  What we saw here was at least educational in one sense:  it was exactly as bad as the broader political dialogue in the United States, for a lot of the same reasons.

Right now, I'm inclined to think that it's a project better suited to other people who have more to gain from it, and the resources to devote to it.  This is not a firm decision, but it's the way we're leaning, and I wanted to give you an update.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 20, 2014, 05:18:51 pm
I would be disappointed to see the political forum go away. It sort of completed TOM as a community. I think we may be quick to punish a whole group for the behavior of possubly 3 individuals. There was good dialog beyond the trolling of a small handful. Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 20, 2014, 05:21:45 pm
I would be disappointed to see the political forum go away. It sort of completed TOM as a community. I think we may be quick to punish a whole group for the behavior of possubly 3 individuals. There was good dialog beyond the trolling of a small handful. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with all of that.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SingletSlinger on May 20, 2014, 06:13:21 pm
How about we just have a forum where we call each other names?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 20, 2014, 07:41:00 pm
I would be disappointed to see the political forum go away. It sort of completed TOM as a community. I think we may be quick to punish a whole group for the behavior of possubly 3 individuals. There was good dialog beyond the trolling of a small handful. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with all of that.
Eliminating the political forum on themat led to the formation of TOM (at least in part).  Considering cutting the roots would be insane.  People have gone "over the top" because they knew they could get away with it.  I like a 3 strikes rule unless the first offense is off the charts.  Just ban violators.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 20, 2014, 09:00:39 pm
I've had some very good discussions on religion back on themat.com, especially with UGLY, with whom I disagreed, but whose point of view I respected. I am not very politically savvy, but I learn a lot from the back and forth between well informed people from both sides. I, too, would miss these topics, but if it is impossible to maintain decorum, then they must be eliminated. After all, this is a site devoted to wrestling and it hurts the image of our sport when the casual fan or young wrestler sees us conduct ourselves poorly.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 20, 2014, 09:04:38 pm
The site has seemed pretty quiet during the ban.  Has it had the same amount of traffic as usual?  I would hate for the sit to wither on the vine from lack of participation.

Is there any way to ban violators from one forum instead of the entire site?  If so, they could still contribute to topics that are less volatile in nature while serving their time. 

I'm also in favor of progressive (no pun intended) punishment.  A private warning on the first offense, with stiffer punishment for each successive infraction.  Also, as often happens when arguing with a cop, the punishment gets worse if the guilty party gets abusive with the moderator.

I've missed the political forum, even if I sometimes get annoyed with the tone of a few of the posts.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 20, 2014, 09:07:08 pm
Agreed, but I also wonder what some of the younger wrestlers (or their parents) think of the pictorial posts that may not be suitable for the workplace.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 20, 2014, 09:13:30 pm
OOPS!  I meant to quote spider when I replied above.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 20, 2014, 11:05:53 pm
What we saw here was at least educational in one sense:  it was exactly as bad as the broader political dialogue in the United States, for a lot of the same reasons.

I made the exact same observation.  Goes to show how much the political "mouthpieces" out there influence our debates.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 21, 2014, 06:11:50 am
How about we just have a forum where we call each other names?

http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,5839.msg73661.html#msg73661
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 21, 2014, 09:59:43 am
I've had some very good discussions on religion back on themat.com, especially with UGLY, with whom I disagreed, but whose point of view I respected. I am not very politically savvy, but I learn a lot from the back and forth between well informed people from both sides. I, too, would miss these topics, but if it is impossible to maintain decorum, then they must be eliminated. After all, this is a site devoted to wrestling and it hurts the image of our sport when the casual fan or young wrestler sees us conduct ourselves poorly.

And yet people think it is ok to have avatars and threads of scantily clad women with boobs bouncing objectifying women and that does not reflect poorly on us?  Unbelievable really.   It is like the religious right that thinks sex in movies is terrible but extreme violence is ok.  Our society is all messed up and does not have it values in the right place.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 21, 2014, 10:36:39 am
OK Ray, as my dad use to say, "it's time to poop or get off the throne".  Get er done.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 21, 2014, 11:35:11 am
OK Ray, as my dad use to say, "it's time to poop or get off the throne".  Get er done.

 :-\
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 21, 2014, 11:37:48 am
Just curious what exactly Ray is supposed to get done now?  Any one have any clues?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 21, 2014, 11:52:54 am
Just curious what exactly Ray is supposed to get done now?  Any one have any clues?

I believe it is to decide to axe the general politics thread and evolution thread or not.  And if not, decide if more rigorous rules need to be placed which will necessitate more policing, time which I'm sure he is not really excited to spend on a forum.  This because of people who can't discuss things in a civil manner and resort to the immature tactics of name calling and character assassination.  The purpose of the forum was to have a place where all topics could be discussed.  Not shouted down, not epithet filled.  But discussed.  In a civil manner.  If forum management feels that this is not possible without increased time for policing, time that would be better spent on the website and business, then the decision is quite easy. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 21, 2014, 11:56:12 am
I hate to say it but I think I just argued for closing down the politics and evolution forums.  Not my intent really as I like them.  But they have become abusive and management probably does not want to waste time policing.  I had not gone there in my thought process until just now.  It is really an easy decision. 

I'm not sure of the true origin of these boards, other than a response to themat's censorship.  But TOM has since become a real business with real responsibility for the shareholders.  Management's time in policing a bunch of idiots on their forums is not part of the present business model I'm sure.  It's really true that good ideas can be ruined by a few malcontents. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 21, 2014, 12:30:30 pm
I hate to say it but I think I just argued for closing down the politics and evolution forums.  Not my intent really as I like them.  But they have become abusive and management probably does not want to waste time policing.  I had not gone there in my thought process until just now.  It is really an easy decision. 

I'm not sure of the true origin of these boards, other than a response to themat's censorship.  But TOM has since become a real business with real responsibility for the shareholders.  Management's time in policing a bunch of idiots on their forums is not part of the present business model I'm sure.  It's really true that good ideas can be ruined by a few malcontents. 

mspart

Or... they could just remove the miscreants.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 21, 2014, 03:42:11 pm
Everyone is guilty of being a miscreant at some time or another with few exceptions.  As for making a decision, not to kiss anyone's butt, they can take as long as they want.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 21, 2014, 03:56:28 pm
Everyone is guilty of being a miscreant at some time or another with few exceptions.  As for making a decision, not to kiss anyone's butt, they can take as long as they want.

Speak for yourself Heel!!!

mspart

Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 21, 2014, 04:28:57 pm
I just looked at my post above while not logged in and didn't see the picture I posted.  Without the picture, it might seem I am terse with Heel but the picture explains it all.  I am not sore at Heel at all.  He made a very valid point, as the picture I attached shows!

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 21, 2014, 05:47:06 pm
Just curious what exactly Ray is supposed to get done now?  Any one have any clues?

I believe it is to decide to axe the general politics thread and evolution thread or not.  And if not, decide if more rigorous rules need to be placed which will necessitate more policing, time which I'm sure he is not really excited to spend on a forum.  This because of people who can't discuss things in a civil manner and resort to the immature tactics of name calling and character assassination.  The purpose of the forum was to have a place where all topics could be discussed.  Not shouted down, not epithet filled.  But discussed.  In a civil manner.  If forum management feels that this is not possible without increased time for policing, time that would be better spent on the website and business, then the decision is quite easy. 

mspart
All they have to do is recruit some new mods if time is a problem.  I'm throwing my hat and mspart's hat into the ring.  Correct mspart?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 21, 2014, 07:23:05 pm
Not sure I have the time.  I don't even know what the meaning of "is" is.  I tend to err on the side of being too anal so I'd kick everyone out except me.  Example:

Post:  mspart, you are being too critical

mspart:  Oh yeah.  See how you like banishment!!!  ha ha ha  ha!!!

You could replace mspart for anyone and I might react the same. 

Yes, more mods might be nice but then they have to take their time to police.  This is a place that should not need policing.  Policy is set, we should all follow.  But that doesn't happen and management may be considering it isn't worth the time to bother.  I don't know what the solution is other than for everyone to follow the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Except I'm sure a few here like to be treated horribly so that doesn't work!!

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 21, 2014, 08:35:01 pm


Yes, more mods might be nice but then they have to take their time to police.  This is a place that should not need policing.  Policy is set, we should all follow.  But that doesn't happen and management may be considering it isn't worth the time to bother.  I don't know what the solution is other than for everyone to follow the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Except I'm sure a few here like to be treated horribly so that doesn't work!!

mspart
I think you live in Fantasyland.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 21, 2014, 09:25:32 pm


Yes, more mods might be nice but then they have to take their time to police.  This is a place that should not need policing.  Policy is set, we should all follow.  But that doesn't happen and management may be considering it isn't worth the time to bother.  I don't know what the solution is other than for everyone to follow the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Except I'm sure a few here like to be treated horribly so that doesn't work!!

mspart
I think you live in Fantasyland.

If so, it is a real shame wouldn't you say?  This should be the real world.  But it isn't, so most likely the politics board goes because some here cannot maintain themselves. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 21, 2014, 11:06:25 pm
I don't think it's a fantasy land thought at all.  Ultimately, every community polices itself. We determine what is acceptable or not acceptabl by what we foster.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 22, 2014, 06:54:51 am
I don't think it's a fantasy land thought at all.  Ultimately, every community polices itself. We determine what is acceptable or not acceptabl by what we foster.
Yeah, every community polices itself with a police force and criminal system.  There are ALWAYS violators.  That is the real world.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 22, 2014, 11:10:44 am
My argument is that every forum has heated debate. We are all the same people. If we can not follow rules in one forum, it should be no different elsewhere. Its the individual not the forum. Hate da playa not da game...
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 22, 2014, 11:57:11 am
My argument is that every forum has heated debate. We are all the same people. If we can not follow rules in one forum, it should be no different elsewhere. Its the individual not the forum. Hate da playa not da game...


And while I tend to agree, since we've shut down the political forum we've had next to nothing for incidents. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 22, 2014, 12:15:54 pm
Thats because the small handful of offenders are officially on notice for their actions. I am sure they do not do it on purpose. The light is shining harder on that activity more than ever. Thats all we ever needed from time to time. Give it time, the college forum or this forum forthat matter can become very similar since the same individuals will just spend their time time there. I am just as passionate in debate about wrestling as I am about ggovernment and politics. I am sure I am not the only one. If nothing else, it has possibly cleaned up the other forums by having that outlet for them. Otherwise, I say the problem is not fixed till the individuals who break the rules are held accountable. We are induviduals not a collective, and all that is ever accomplished  by addressing an entire group instead of the individual is less choice. If I am alone in this then do what needs to be done. But I think crediting the recent results on the avsence of the forum is innaccurate.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 22, 2014, 12:52:26 pm
We are induviduals not a collective, and all that is ever accomplished  by addressing an entire group instead of the individual is less choice.

With this agree I do. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 22, 2014, 01:08:02 pm
A solution has just entered my brain.

Re-establish the General Board.  Do so with the warning of strict rules adherence.  For a violation, a warning is given to the individual.  For a second violation, the individual is banned for x time period (1 day, life, whatever) and a notice goes up that said individual has been banned from that board and the reason why. 

If the activity cleans up after a few posters are banned from the board, then we have a winner and people are free to express their opinions on topics of the day.   This will show that a few people banned can send either a message to the rest or it will show that the few eliminated were the problem. 

If the activity does not clean up after a few bannings then it apparently is impossible to keep operating this way and the General Board should be eliminated.  This will show that we are mostly all the problem and the board should be eliminated.  I assume that the MODs can know if a banned person comes back under another moniker for the purpose of accelerating the demise of the General board, a nefarious purpose to be sure. 

In other words a trial.  It should not take long to figure out which way it will go.  A "just give us another chance and we'll be good" situation that we will prove one way or the other.  On the other hand, management could cut to the chase and just kill it now. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 22, 2014, 01:48:23 pm
I don't think it's a fantasy land thought at all.  Ultimately, every community polices itself. We determine what is acceptable or not acceptabl by what we foster.
Yeah, every community polices itself with a police force and criminal system.  There are ALWAYS violators.  That is the real world.

Here's my point... the community at large identifies what is acceptable and what is not acceptable based on how it reacts to the actions of an individual.  That individual then learns what is acceptable.  To use a finite example relevant to this ... if a poster posts something inflammatory, and the community responds in kind, then the community has indicated inflammatory remarks are the accepted mode of communication.  If the community does not "take the bait" so to speak and ignores the inflammatory comment while continuing its discussion to the exclusion of the inflammatory poster until such time that the inflammatory poster participates in an acceptable fashion, the community has indicated that inflammatory remarks are not acceptable and will do nothing but exclude you from the conversation.  It takes two to tango, and people eventually get tired of dancing by themselves.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 02:21:01 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 22, 2014, 03:39:11 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 22, 2014, 03:42:04 pm
It is, however, true that almost everyone steps "out of bounds" once in a while, and it should be their peers who provide the correction, not a cyber police force.  If someone, anyone, is acting in a manner that you don't find acceptable, then don't talk to them, eventually they don't act that way anymore or they go away of their own accord.  If you instead respond in kind and allow a pissing match to begin, all you do is end up with a community that has piss all over the place.  Each of us, individually, determines what kind of community we want to have and our individual actions create that community.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 03:51:39 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

And the use of the term country clubber differs from the use of any number of terms that are used to refer to liberals on here (socialist, communist, panty waist,etc)?  If I'm not mistaken, I would guess that you use those terms as well.

Regarding the references to stormfront.org, while we are discussing issues of race on here and I point out identical parallels with thoughts stated on here with thoughts stated on the website, (1) that is NOT a personal attack and (2) should that NOT be fair game to compare such views?  Isn't the same done regarding liberals and apparent ties to socialism/communism/statism/fascism, or any number of incorrect refeerences to liberalism?

See what I mean?  ;)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 04:01:16 pm
It is, however, true that almost everyone steps "out of bounds" once in a while, and it should be their peers who provide the correction, not a cyber police force. 

I'm sure that this was just an overstatement, but I don't really see the mods on here, due to their vested interests in the site, as cyber police.  They are owners and partners (I think?) who have sole authority over the site.  That's why I never disagree with whatever decisions that they make; it's their show, not ours.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 22, 2014, 04:15:17 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

And the use of the term country clubber differs from the use of any number of terms that are used to refer to liberals on here (socialist, communist, panty waist,etc)?  If I'm not mistaken, I would guess that you use those terms as well.

Regarding the references to stormfront.org, while we are discussing issues of race on here and I point out identical parallels with thoughts stated on here with thoughts stated on the website, (1) that is NOT a personal attack and (2) should that NOT be fair game to compare such views?  Isn't the same done regarding liberals and apparent ties to socialism/communism/statism/fascism, or any number of incorrect refeerences to liberalism?

See what I mean?  ;)


Using the search function, I'd say you and Sparky use the words communist and socialist more than anyone else here.  At least based on the first couple of pages of results.  Now, should I search your crutch statement "country clubbers" too?


You're ignoring the fact that even while you knew people were intentionally not replying to you, you still antagonized like a grade schooler rather than engage in rational discourse.   
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 22, 2014, 04:25:31 pm
Good, I'm glad you guys are talking.  Here's a chance to have a civil discussion about civil discussions.  See if you can come to some kind of agreement on how you're going to get along.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 04:57:55 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

And the use of the term country clubber differs from the use of any number of terms that are used to refer to liberals on here (socialist, communist, panty waist,etc)?  If I'm not mistaken, I would guess that you use those terms as well.

Regarding the references to stormfront.org, while we are discussing issues of race on here and I point out identical parallels with thoughts stated on here with thoughts stated on the website, (1) that is NOT a personal attack and (2) should that NOT be fair game to compare such views?  Isn't the same done regarding liberals and apparent ties to socialism/communism/statism/fascism, or any number of incorrect refeerences to liberalism?

See what I mean?  ;)


Using the search function, I'd say you and Sparky use the words communist and socialist more than anyone else here.  At least based on the first couple of pages of results.  Now, should I search your crutch statement "country clubbers" too?


You're ignoring the fact that even while you knew people were intentionally not replying to you, you still antagonized like a grade schooler rather than engage in rational discourse.

Ah, got it!  So, it's a numbers game, eh?  If I use the word communist 54 times, while someone else uses it only 34 times, the one with the higher infractions is the SOLE problem then?  Got it!

I was "antagonizing" others?  By trying to bring up issues as part of a discussion?  I wasn't insulting anyone (unless they brought it first), I wasn't calling anyone derogatory names, and nor was I threatening people.  If it's "antagonizing" to try to make people live up to their own words, then, strike me down, Lord, for I am antagonist, but I feel pretty comfortable in knowing when I antagonize and when I don't, and this was NOT antagonizing.

Bottom line is this (and if this is the tipping point decision to ban me, then so be it.  I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago.  Too many people tried to get my goat with it today (they STILL do) to absolutely no avail.  In fact, today, I tell them to go ahead and make jokes about whitey all day; I LOVE it!  Well, that bothered people that they couldn't get my goat.  Then, I began using their own words against them in debates (which is THE SOLE REASON why people put me on ignore and no one wanted to debate me any longer) regarding supposed "principles" that they believed in during the Bush years, which they suddenly abandoned when January of 2009 came around.  I found such a lack of principle to be curious and held people to the fire over it.  Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles" (or lack thereof), I then become, conclusively, a "bad guy," "antagonizer," "douche," "violator," or whatever other term has been used.

Those are the facts and I'll stand behind.  Come what may.   :P
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 05:01:08 pm
This is what the last sentence should say...those are the facts and I'll stand behind them.  Come what may.    :P
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 22, 2014, 05:03:51 pm
Ban,

What is your purpose here?  To Discuss or to get revenge?   It appears to me by your own admission it is revenge.  I could have taken your words out of context, but that is what I read. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 05:09:24 pm
Ban,

What is your purpose here?  To Discuss or to get revenge?   It appears to me by your own admission it is revenge.  I could have taken your words out of context, but that is what I read. 

mspart

Regarding political discussions only, to discuss, and entertain myself in the process by seeing people backpedal on their supposed "beliefs" that change with political cycles.   I also find that curious, and am always trying to ascertain how such "deeply held beliefs" could change so suddenly.

Revenge?  Nah, but I guess that question could be asked of the folks who immediately started with the Irish jokes nonsense the first day that I came on here, right?  I came on here with a clean slate, others did not.   ;)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 22, 2014, 05:18:41 pm
Maybe I got it wrong.  Are you here to discuss or to argue to no point?  Because that is what you do.  Your posts make no point, only to argue for the sake of it.  That's why I publicly told you I would no longer respond to your posts.  So what is the point of your participation?  If discuss, there will be many that will disagree based on your track record.  If it is to argue or get revenge or some such thing, there will be many who agree based on your track record. 

By your own admission "I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago."  AND  "Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles"...

In other words, by your own admission, you did not seek to further the debate, or to argue in behalf of your point of view, or to bring relevant facts to the discussion, it was revenge and straight argument with no attempt to address the point of the thread.  That is really quite a good description of your participation. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 05:26:37 pm
Maybe I got it wrong.  Are you here to discuss or to argue to no point?  Because that is what you do.  Your posts make no point, only to argue for the sake of it.  That's why I publicly told you I would no longer respond to your posts.  So what is the point of your participation?  If discuss, there will be many that will disagree based on your track record.  If it is to argue or get revenge or some such thing, there will be many who agree based on your track record. 

By your own admission "I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago."  AND  "Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles"...

In other words, by your own admission, you did not seek to further the debate, or to argue in behalf of your point of view, or to bring relevant facts to the discussion, it was revenge and straight argument with no attempt to address the point of the thread.  That is really quite a good description of your participation. 

mspart

Call it revenge, but I call it holding persons' feet to the fire.  What makes people change their "beliefs" with election cycles?  THAT is what I constantly seek to uncover, whether it be on here, other political forums, in classrooms, or in personal discussions.

Again, if you think of it as "revenge," then think of it that way, but, in my mind and understanding my own intentions, you would be wrong.

What was the point of the continuation of the Irish jokes, do you think?  Revenge, or rational discussion of the history of ethnic hatred in the U.S.?   ;)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: fuhr on May 22, 2014, 05:36:15 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

And the use of the term country clubber differs from the use of any number of terms that are used to refer to liberals on here (socialist, communist, panty waist,etc)?  If I'm not mistaken, I would guess that you use those terms as well.

Regarding the references to stormfront.org, while we are discussing issues of race on here and I point out identical parallels with thoughts stated on here with thoughts stated on the website, (1) that is NOT a personal attack and (2) should that NOT be fair game to compare such views?  Isn't the same done regarding liberals and apparent ties to socialism/communism/statism/fascism, or any number of incorrect refeerences to liberalism?

See what I mean?  ;)


Using the search function, I'd say you and Sparky use the words communist and socialist more than anyone else here.  At least based on the first couple of pages of results.  Now, should I search your crutch statement "country clubbers" too?


You're ignoring the fact that even while you knew people were intentionally not replying to you, you still antagonized like a grade schooler rather than engage in rational discourse.

Ah, got it!  So, it's a numbers game, eh?  If I use the word communist 54 times, while someone else uses it only 34 times, the one with the higher infractions is the SOLE problem then?  Got it!

I was "antagonizing" others?  By trying to bring up issues as part of a discussion?  I wasn't insulting anyone (unless they brought it first), I wasn't calling anyone derogatory names, and nor was I threatening people.  If it's "antagonizing" to try to make people live up to their own words, then, strike me down, Lord, for I am antagonist, but I feel pretty comfortable in knowing when I antagonize and when I don't, and this was NOT antagonizing.

Bottom line is this (and if this is the tipping point decision to ban me, then so be it.  I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago.  Too many people tried to get my goat with it today (they STILL do) to absolutely no avail.  In fact, today, I tell them to go ahead and make jokes about whitey all day; I LOVE it!  Well, that bothered people that they couldn't get my goat.  Then, I began using their own words against them in debates (which is THE SOLE REASON why people put me on ignore and no one wanted to debate me any longer) regarding supposed "principles" that they believed in during the Bush years, which they suddenly abandoned when January of 2009 came around.  I found such a lack of principle to be curious and held people to the fire over it.  Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles" (or lack thereof), I then become, conclusively, a "bad guy," "antagonizer," "douche," "violator," or whatever other term has been used.

Those are the facts and I'll stand behind.  Come what may.   :P


You're the one who started the "well if other people can do it so can I" and cited examples of words they used.  I simply did a search to see and saw it was you more than anyone else who used those words. 


You say you don't call names but you do.  You constantly call people "country clubbers" whether or not they are having a discussion with you.  You insinuate on a regular basis that posters are racists and link to a stormfront when you are the only person I know ever on that site.  You routinely add nothing to the conversation on WHY you dont' agree with what is being said instead choosing to try and be clever by repeating 'country clubbers looking at stormfront again' or trying to rip off Colbert, poorly I might add. 
If anyone thought you were serious about adding to a discussion rather than trying to fight, it would be different but that's not who you are or what you want to do on these boards.  You want to argue.  It's why I voted to eliminate the boards entirely rather than ban users because have made so un-enjoyable to even go to the politics board that I would simply rather see it go away for everyone. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 22, 2014, 05:40:23 pm
Maybe I got it wrong.  Are you here to discuss or to argue to no point?  Because that is what you do.  Your posts make no point, only to argue for the sake of it.  That's why I publicly told you I would no longer respond to your posts.  So what is the point of your participation?  If discuss, there will be many that will disagree based on your track record.  If it is to argue or get revenge or some such thing, there will be many who agree based on your track record. 

By your own admission "I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago."  AND  "Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles"...

In other words, by your own admission, you did not seek to further the debate, or to argue in behalf of your point of view, or to bring relevant facts to the discussion, it was revenge and straight argument with no attempt to address the point of the thread.  That is really quite a good description of your participation. 

mspart

Call it revenge, but I call it holding persons' feet to the fire.  What makes people change their "beliefs" with election cycles?  THAT is what I constantly seek to uncover, whether it be on here, other political forums, in classrooms, or in personal discussions.

Again, if you think of it as "revenge," then think of it that way, but, in my mind and understanding my own intentions, you would be wrong.

What was the point of the continuation of the Irish jokes, do you think?  Revenge, or rational discussion of the history of ethnic hatred in the U.S.?   ;)

Ban, you are proving my point. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 05:44:35 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

And the use of the term country clubber differs from the use of any number of terms that are used to refer to liberals on here (socialist, communist, panty waist,etc)?  If I'm not mistaken, I would guess that you use those terms as well.

Regarding the references to stormfront.org, while we are discussing issues of race on here and I point out identical parallels with thoughts stated on here with thoughts stated on the website, (1) that is NOT a personal attack and (2) should that NOT be fair game to compare such views?  Isn't the same done regarding liberals and apparent ties to socialism/communism/statism/fascism, or any number of incorrect refeerences to liberalism?

See what I mean?  ;)


Using the search function, I'd say you and Sparky use the words communist and socialist more than anyone else here.  At least based on the first couple of pages of results.  Now, should I search your crutch statement "country clubbers" too?


You're ignoring the fact that even while you knew people were intentionally not replying to you, you still antagonized like a grade schooler rather than engage in rational discourse.

Ah, got it!  So, it's a numbers game, eh?  If I use the word communist 54 times, while someone else uses it only 34 times, the one with the higher infractions is the SOLE problem then?  Got it!

I was "antagonizing" others?  By trying to bring up issues as part of a discussion?  I wasn't insulting anyone (unless they brought it first), I wasn't calling anyone derogatory names, and nor was I threatening people.  If it's "antagonizing" to try to make people live up to their own words, then, strike me down, Lord, for I am antagonist, but I feel pretty comfortable in knowing when I antagonize and when I don't, and this was NOT antagonizing.

Bottom line is this (and if this is the tipping point decision to ban me, then so be it.  I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago.  Too many people tried to get my goat with it today (they STILL do) to absolutely no avail.  In fact, today, I tell them to go ahead and make jokes about whitey all day; I LOVE it!  Well, that bothered people that they couldn't get my goat.  Then, I began using their own words against them in debates (which is THE SOLE REASON why people put me on ignore and no one wanted to debate me any longer) regarding supposed "principles" that they believed in during the Bush years, which they suddenly abandoned when January of 2009 came around.  I found such a lack of principle to be curious and held people to the fire over it.  Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles" (or lack thereof), I then become, conclusively, a "bad guy," "antagonizer," "douche," "violator," or whatever other term has been used.

Those are the facts and I'll stand behind.  Come what may.   :P
If anyone thought you were serious about adding to a discussion rather than trying to fight, it would be different but that's not who you are or what you want to do on these boards.  You want to argue. 

I've already addressed your other allegations, and they still hold true now, so I'll leave them be.

Concerning the quote above, however, there's a tad bit of problem with your point.  I come on here to MAKE POINTS, with argument being a former byproduct of that.  The fact of the matter is that no one has replied to my political points for months now and if all that I wanted to do was argue, would I not have left here loing ago?  In fact, I get ZERO kick out of arguing with people, but, rather I love to make points, and the less that people try to argue with them, the happier that I am.  I don't have to listen to anyone's nonsense if they aren't replying to me, yet they listen to mine.  How can you top THAT for the perfect scenario?!

Bottom line:  I would have left here LONG AGO had I only wanted to argue, but I stay because I can make points.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 05:46:31 pm
Maybe I got it wrong.  Are you here to discuss or to argue to no point?  Because that is what you do.  Your posts make no point, only to argue for the sake of it.  That's why I publicly told you I would no longer respond to your posts.  So what is the point of your participation?  If discuss, there will be many that will disagree based on your track record.  If it is to argue or get revenge or some such thing, there will be many who agree based on your track record. 

By your own admission "I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago."  AND  "Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles"...

In other words, by your own admission, you did not seek to further the debate, or to argue in behalf of your point of view, or to bring relevant facts to the discussion, it was revenge and straight argument with no attempt to address the point of the thread.  That is really quite a good description of your participation. 

mspart

Call it revenge, but I call it holding persons' feet to the fire.  What makes people change their "beliefs" with election cycles?  THAT is what I constantly seek to uncover, whether it be on here, other political forums, in classrooms, or in personal discussions.

Again, if you think of it as "revenge," then think of it that way, but, in my mind and understanding my own intentions, you would be wrong.

What was the point of the continuation of the Irish jokes, do you think?  Revenge, or rational discussion of the history of ethnic hatred in the U.S.?   ;)

Ban, you are proving my point. 

mspart

Not sure what that point is, but you certainly don't know me, nor anything about me, and especially what motivates me.

That is obvious, but keep calling it "revenge" and keep being wrong.  Means nothing to me either way.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on May 22, 2014, 06:07:06 pm
The political board brought out the worst in most of those that dwelled there. It was derisive, divisive, and polarizing. It was a cesspool without any value to the Open Mat brand. Why it is still here is beyond me.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 22, 2014, 06:11:19 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

Vice you too are one of the habitual violators.  I but the number of time you have refered to me in deragotory terms, sparkles, vortex or whatever numbers in the hundreds.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 22, 2014, 06:13:06 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


I will bet you cannot find one time that I ever refered to anyone on here as a communist.  Nor anyone other then myself as a socialist.  I am proud of being a flaming liberal as I think most liberals are. 

"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

And the use of the term country clubber differs from the use of any number of terms that are used to refer to liberals on here (socialist, communist, panty waist,etc)?  If I'm not mistaken, I would guess that you use those terms as well.

Regarding the references to stormfront.org, while we are discussing issues of race on here and I point out identical parallels with thoughts stated on here with thoughts stated on the website, (1) that is NOT a personal attack and (2) should that NOT be fair game to compare such views?  Isn't the same done regarding liberals and apparent ties to socialism/communism/statism/fascism, or any number of incorrect refeerences to liberalism?

See what I mean?  ;)


Using the search function, I'd say you and Sparky use the words communist and socialist more than anyone else here.  At least based on the first couple of pages of results.  Now, should I search your crutch statement "country clubbers" too?


You're ignoring the fact that even while you knew people were intentionally not replying to you, you still antagonized like a grade schooler rather than engage in rational discourse.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 22, 2014, 06:14:48 pm
My own brief treatise on this issue.

I know that I'm probably speaking out of ignorance, but all of these veiled references to "the violators" should be just right up front.  Obviously, as one who is likely one of "the violators" in peoples' minds on here, it shouldn't be any mystery to any one of us why all of the talk of banning "the violators" is confusing, at best, and, at least, confusing because casting stones at "the violators" is being done by "violators" on here, in varying degrees.

Yes, there are folks on here who I've never seen violate any of our rules, but aside from those VERY FEW, all of us are "violators."  Again, we all do it in varying degrees, but my point is that it's very difficult being labeled (or, so I assume) as one of "the violators" and "troublemakers," all the while having fingers pointed at us by folks who have also done the exact same thing.

So, unless we're all living without sin on here (some aren't), let's not cast the stones at "the violators."  It truly makes me feel about as low as I can feel, simply because I feel responsible for all of this discussion and frustration, yet, at the same time, I feel offended that people pointing fingers and asking for bans are also "violators."

I also fully understsnd that I could just pick up and not post here any longer, but I genuinely like contributing to various aspects of these forums, whether people like to read what I have to say or not.  Maybe it's selfish, but I like to stay for that reason.

Take this with as many grains of salt as you see fit, but it is a valid point, I believe.


"Many of us have assiduously avoided responding to any of your posts for several months now, but that hasnt stopped you from habitually calling us "Country Clubbers" and accusing us of being followers of racist ideologies through your also habitual mentioning of "Stromfront". So, yes it would be you and one or two others that we are talking about.

And the use of the term country clubber differs from the use of any number of terms that are used to refer to liberals on here (socialist, communist, panty waist,etc)?  If I'm not mistaken, I would guess that you use those terms as well.

Regarding the references to stormfront.org, while we are discussing issues of race on here and I point out identical parallels with thoughts stated on here with thoughts stated on the website, (1) that is NOT a personal attack and (2) should that NOT be fair game to compare such views?  Isn't the same done regarding liberals and apparent ties to socialism/communism/statism/fascism, or any number of incorrect refeerences to liberalism?

See what I mean?  ;)


Using the search function, I'd say you and Sparky use the words communist and socialist more than anyone else here.  At least based on the first couple of pages of results.  Now, should I search your crutch statement "country clubbers" too?


You're ignoring the fact that even while you knew people were intentionally not replying to you, you still antagonized like a grade schooler rather than engage in rational discourse.

You too fuhr are a frequent and habitual violator.  Dare I search the terms vortex and sparkles or sparkilian with you name.  Bet the search results would number in the several of pages.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 22, 2014, 06:44:33 pm
You too fuhr are a frequent and habitual violator.  Dare I search the terms vortex and sparkles or sparkilian with you name.  Bet the search results would number in the several of pages.

Sparky, Fuhr has not used sparkilian ever.  At least spelled that way.

There are 4 Fuhr posts with Sparkles and he only wrote it in one of those.  The rest were quotes from other posters. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 22, 2014, 06:45:46 pm
Please, since when us Sparkles,  or Sparkilian derogatory. That is like me reporting someone for calling me "Leggy". Your grasping at straws. This is proving my point. This is an announcement forum that can quickly turn into the same debate as the political forum. We are watching it slowly creep. As long as we have the same individuals here, deleting forums is not going to change a thing. Either we deak with what we consider as violations on an individual basis or we accept it.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 22, 2014, 06:54:02 pm
Maybe I got it wrong.  Are you here to discuss or to argue to no point?  Because that is what you do.  Your posts make no point, only to argue for the sake of it.  That's why I publicly told you I would no longer respond to your posts.  So what is the point of your participation?  If discuss, there will be many that will disagree based on your track record.  If it is to argue or get revenge or some such thing, there will be many who agree based on your track record. 

By your own admission "I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago."  AND  "Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles"...

In other words, by your own admission, you did not seek to further the debate, or to argue in behalf of your point of view, or to bring relevant facts to the discussion, it was revenge and straight argument with no attempt to address the point of the thread.  That is really quite a good description of your participation. 

mspart

Call it revenge, but I call it holding persons' feet to the fire.  What makes people change their "beliefs" with election cycles?  THAT is what I constantly seek to uncover, whether it be on here, other political forums, in classrooms, or in personal discussions.

Again, if you think of it as "revenge," then think of it that way, but, in my mind and understanding my own intentions, you would be wrong.

What was the point of the continuation of the Irish jokes, do you think?  Revenge, or rational discussion of the history of ethnic hatred in the U.S.?   ;)

Ban, you are proving my point. 

mspart

Not sure what that point is, but you certainly don't know me, nor anything about me, and especially what motivates me.

That is obvious, but keep calling it "revenge" and keep being wrong.  Means nothing to me either way.

I liked you originally because I hate basketball and you appeared to have some intelligence.  I still like your handle.  But you are correct.  I do not know you.  I can only go by what you have written.  And what you have written is for all to see where I quoted what motivates you to be on this board.  You are not here to discuss but to argue, get revenge, "get points" whatever you want to call it, it certainly is not to discuss the topic of the thread.  And again, you are proving that point.

Perhaps your intent is to shut down the General Board by this kind of behavior.  If so, it appears like you are about to be successful.  Congratulations.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 22, 2014, 07:14:13 pm
Ban is dead on with the Irish nonsense.   Several here obviously tried to rev him up when he made his arrival.
I had forgotten that, and now see him as a John Rambo type.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 07:38:22 pm
Maybe I got it wrong.  Are you here to discuss or to argue to no point?  Because that is what you do.  Your posts make no point, only to argue for the sake of it.  That's why I publicly told you I would no longer respond to your posts.  So what is the point of your participation?  If discuss, there will be many that will disagree based on your track record.  If it is to argue or get revenge or some such thing, there will be many who agree based on your track record. 

By your own admission "I came on here with a whole bunch of children who couldn't forget the now infamous, "Irish joke incident"  from ten years ago."  AND  "Because I further would not answer any of their gotcha" questions and kept the heat on their own "principles"...

In other words, by your own admission, you did not seek to further the debate, or to argue in behalf of your point of view, or to bring relevant facts to the discussion, it was revenge and straight argument with no attempt to address the point of the thread.  That is really quite a good description of your participation. 

mspart

Call it revenge, but I call it holding persons' feet to the fire.  What makes people change their "beliefs" with election cycles?  THAT is what I constantly seek to uncover, whether it be on here, other political forums, in classrooms, or in personal discussions.

Again, if you think of it as "revenge," then think of it that way, but, in my mind and understanding my own intentions, you would be wrong.

What was the point of the continuation of the Irish jokes, do you think?  Revenge, or rational discussion of the history of ethnic hatred in the U.S.?   ;)

Ban, you are proving my point. 

mspart

Not sure what that point is, but you certainly don't know me, nor anything about me, and especially what motivates me.

That is obvious, but keep calling it "revenge" and keep being wrong.  Means nothing to me either way.

I liked you originally because I hate basketball and you appeared to have some intelligence.  I still like your handle.  But you are correct.  I do not know you.  I can only go by what you have written.  And what you have written is for all to see where I quoted what motivates you to be on this board.  You are not here to discuss but to argue, get revenge, "get points" whatever you want to call it, it certainly is not to discuss the topic of the thread.  And again, you are proving that point.

Perhaps your intent is to shut down the General Board by this kind of behavior.  If so, it appears like you are about to be successful.  Congratulations.

mspart

1.  Again, if I was here to argue, I would have left LONG ago.  I rather like the fact that I could make points with no lip from others.

2.  If you insist that it's for revenge, good, it's for revenge. Satisfied now?  Glad to see that you enjoy "civil discussion," as opposed to "gotcha games."  ;)

3.  Your final point reminds me of a point that I've made forever regarding debates over race.  I'll use a quote from what others say to illustrate it:  "If you'd just stop talking about race, it wouldn't be an issue anymore!"  >:(

My reply:  "I appreciate that you think that I have that much power to SINGLEHANDEDLY keep race issues alive.  I am truly honored."  Touche, regarding your point about my closing down the forum, SINGLEHANDEDLY.  Back in Minnesota we had a phrase, "it takes two to tango," or, as the ignorant say, "it takes two to tangle."  Hopefully you can connect those dots.  ;)

Gee, that ban was SO much more fun as the Irish joke whipping boy, wasn't he?  What happened to that man we used to love?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 07:40:12 pm
Ban is dead on with the Irish nonsense.   Several here obviously tried to rev him up when he made his arrival.
I had forgotten that, and now see him as a John Rambo type.

Either my very first or second post on this forum, posting a music video that my son made of a song that he wrote, will prove that point perfectly.  One of our "civil discussants" who is, ironically, casting stones at the "violators" was the perpetrator in that case.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on May 22, 2014, 08:08:18 pm
Ban is dead on with the Irish nonsense.   Several here obviously tried to rev him up when he made his arrival.
I had forgotten that, and now see him as a John Rambo type.
He said he enjoyed them.  I believed him.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 22, 2014, 08:38:03 pm
Ban is dead on with the Irish nonsense.   Several here obviously tried to rev him up when he made his arrival.
I had forgotten that, and now see him as a John Rambo type.

Either my very first or second post on this forum, posting a music video that my son made of a song that he wrote, will prove that point perfectly.  One of our "civil discussants" who is, ironically, casting stones at the "violators" was the perpetrator in that case.

I recall, but you're still generally a rude bloke.  I agree that several of your fellow combatants are just as rude, but that doesn't mean that you should follow suit.
Somewhat unrelated, I don't buy your "I'm truly interested in understanding the logic of how some flip flop so easily" as your basis for being here.   I think you enjoy combative arguments (I definitely do).
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 09:54:11 pm
Ban is dead on with the Irish nonsense.   Several here obviously tried to rev him up when he made his arrival.
I had forgotten that, and now see him as a John Rambo type.

Either my very first or second post on this forum, posting a music video that my son made of a song that he wrote, will prove that point perfectly.  One of our "civil discussants" who is, ironically, casting stones at the "violators" was the perpetrator in that case.

I recall, but you're still generally a rude bloke.  I agree that several of your fellow combatants are just as rude, but that doesn't mean that you should follow suit.
Somewhat unrelated, I don't buy your "I'm truly interested in understanding the logic of how some flip flop so easily" as your basis for being here.   I think you enjoy combative arguments (I definitely do).

Perhaps you can be the first to answer why I've stayed here so long then?

No one else seems to be able to figure that one out, including myself.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 22, 2014, 09:57:37 pm
I've already stated that the reason you are here is to partake and initiate combative arguments.  You also might enjoy the company of a few, but it's mostly for arguments.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 10:03:09 pm
I've already stated that the reason you are here is to partake and initiate combative arguments.  You also might enjoy the company of a few, but it's mostly for arguments.

Way behind the curve.  Reply #192 in this thread.

That's my question.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 22, 2014, 10:08:32 pm
Unless you don't care, you might want to work on driving your point home better than you currently do.  Your current approach is dismal and simply not working.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 10:20:33 pm
Unless you don't care, you might want to work on driving your point home better than you currently do.  Your current approach is dismal and simply not working.

No answer to the question?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 22, 2014, 10:24:30 pm
I've answered as much as I'm willing to, which I believe to be sufficient.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 10:26:40 pm
I've answered as much as I'm willing to, which I believe to be sufficient.

Why have I stayed then?  After all, no one DOES argue with me.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 22, 2014, 10:31:42 pm
See reply #211 from here on out.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 10:42:08 pm
See reply #211 from here on out.

Yeah, but it still leaves my question unanswered.

As we all should know, that's what I prefer:  no lip.   8)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 22, 2014, 10:48:29 pm
I've answered as much as I'm willing to, which I believe to be sufficient.

Why have I stayed then?  After all, no one DOES argue with me.

You are here to masturbate your ego.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 11:01:19 pm
I've answered as much as I'm willing to, which I believe to be sufficient.

Why have I stayed then?  After all, no one DOES argue with me.

You are here to masturbate your ego.

How does that relate to the original question though:  why did I stay?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 22, 2014, 11:04:11 pm
(http://www.virginmedia.com/images/benstiller-somethingaboutmary-590x350.jpg)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 22, 2014, 11:13:05 pm
I'll call that cryptic pic.


(http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsM/10949-14013.gif)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 23, 2014, 09:03:14 am
I've answered as much as I'm willing to, which I believe to be sufficient.

Why have I stayed then?  After all, no one DOES argue with me.

You are here to masturbate your ego.

How does that relate to the original question though:  why did I stay?

Asked and answered.  You believe that you are morally and intellectually superior to most others on this board.  You, therefore, stick around because you also believe that your actions here confirm that superiority.  Rather than interact in a meaningful fashion, you play games in which you are the only participant, ie, you play with yourself stroking your own ego.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 09:11:19 am
Please, since when us Sparkles,  or Sparkilian derogatory. That is like me reporting someone for calling me "Leggy". Your grasping at straws. This is proving my point. This is an announcement forum that can quickly turn into the same debate as the political forum. We are watching it slowly creep. As long as we have the same individuals here, deleting forums is not going to change a thing. Either we deak with what we consider as violations on an individual basis or we accept it.

Please leggy try to be intellectually honest.  We all know that sparkles and sparkillian are derogatory.  To deny it is to be dishonest.  Now if the were to simply call me coach or sparky it would be similar to calling you leggy, your name for short. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 09:12:17 am
You too fuhr are a frequent and habitual violator.  Dare I search the terms vortex and sparkles or sparkilian with you name.  Bet the search results would number in the several of pages.

Sparky, Fuhr has not used sparkilian ever.  At least spelled that way.

There are 4 Fuhr posts with Sparkles and he only wrote it in one of those.  The rest were quotes from other posters. 

mspart

I counted five time he used sparkles and two times he used vortex.  Total equal 7.  It was not pages I was wrong.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 09:13:38 am
Ban is dead on with the Irish nonsense.   Several here obviously tried to rev him up when he made his arrival.
I had forgotten that, and now see him as a John Rambo type.
He said he enjoyed them.  I believed him.

Dishonesty alert.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 23, 2014, 10:33:40 am
I've answered as much as I'm willing to, which I believe to be sufficient.

Why have I stayed then?  After all, no one DOES argue with me.

You are here to masturbate your ego.

How does that relate to the original question though:  why did I stay?

Asked and answered.  You believe that you are morally and intellectually superior to most others on this board.  You, therefore, stick around because you also believe that your actions here confirm that superiority.  Rather than interact in a meaningful fashion, you play games in which you are the only participant, ie, you play with yourself stroking your own ego.

Got it!  First guess too!  How'd you  do it?  I's is impressed!

(Well, at least someone TRIED  to answer the question).
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 23, 2014, 10:36:38 am
Speaking of the bizarre differentiation with "name calling," I've had several comment how the term country clubber is the pinnacle of offensiveness on here, yet the term sparkles is one of endearment directed toward sparky.

Why I'm confused, I don't know?   ???
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on May 23, 2014, 10:49:53 am
You are here because wrestling forums with non-wrestling boards are like crack to you. You will not leave of your own accord because you are unable to. The Mat, TWT, and now Tom. As long as posters serve up what you are addicted to you will not leave.

This is my brilliant insight as to how the world works for you.

If you believe that my opinion is incorrect just remember that you asked for it and that it is worth the same two cents as yours.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 23, 2014, 10:55:38 am
You are here because wrestling forums with non-wrestling boards are like crack to you. You will not leave of your own accord because you are unable to. The Mat, TWT, and now Tom. As long as posters serve up what you are addicted to you will not leave.

This is my brilliant insight as to how the world works for you.

If you believe that my opinion is incorrect just remember that you asked for it and that it is worth the same two cents as yours.

Well, maybe.  After the issues with the viruses over at TWT, I haven't posted over there for months, and that was my favorite site for quite some time.

Regarding the "addiction" analogy though, that would differentiate me from anyone else who posts on here daily in which way, including yourself?   ;)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on May 23, 2014, 11:11:39 am
Your question was specifically about you.

If you wanted to broaden the question to include everyone who spends way too much of their life on here and is unable to move on then I would have used the plural in my answer.





 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 23, 2014, 11:14:38 am
Your question was specifically about you.

If you wanted to broaden the question to include everyone who spends way too much of their life on here and is unable to move on then I would have used the plural in my answer.

Good by me.  I took the liberty myself then to broaden it to folks like you who are also addicted to this synthetic crack that you speak of.   ;D
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SVV on May 23, 2014, 11:48:55 am
So, what the F is happening?  Are you nixing the non wrestling stuff?  Banning the idiots? 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 23, 2014, 12:43:23 pm
So, what the F is happening?  Are you nixing the non wrestling stuff?  Banning the idiots?

I am taking my time.  We are no worse off now than we were a few weeks ago, unless you are dying to talk politics.  If I had decided sooner, the decision would have certainly been to close political discussion permanently, so there would have been nothing gained had we decided already.  The rest of the forum is still available to you, just as if the decision to close Politics > General and Evolution was permanent.  Enjoy it.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 01:03:08 pm
So, what the F is happening?  Are you nixing the non wrestling stuff?  Banning the idiots?

I am taking my time.  We are no worse off now than we were a few weeks ago, unless you are dying to talk politics.  If I had decided sooner, the decision would have certainly been to close political discussion permanently, so there would have been nothing gained had we decided already.  The rest of the forum is still available to you, just as if the decision to close Politics > General and Evolution was permanent.  Enjoy it.

And I think your restraint has been impressive.  Don't let people push you to make a decision you are not ready to make.  This has not been a fruitless effort regardless of your final decision, I believe people have had an opportunity to learn something about others as well as learn something about themselves.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 23, 2014, 02:16:57 pm
We are no worse off now than we were a few weeks ago,

Judging from the direction this thread has taken, I don't think we're much better off either.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 02:18:26 pm
We are no worse off now than we were a few weeks ago,

Judging from the direction this thread has taken, I don't think we're much better off either.

I'd be interested in what makes you feel that way?  What about this thread has shown a lack of civil discussion?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 23, 2014, 02:29:41 pm
We are no worse off now than we were a few weeks ago,

Judging from the direction this thread has taken, I don't think we're much better off either.

I'd be interested in what makes you feel that way?  What about this thread has shown a lack of civil discussion?

Exactly.  No one is calling anyone names, no one is insulting one another, but, yes, disagreements have sprung up over how we determine who a "violator" is and who is not.

Bottom line is that if I'm involved in ANY dispute on here, the whole place has gone to hell and I need to be banned, as that will make everything on here like Disneyland.

It's getting so frickin' tedious.   ::)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 23, 2014, 02:58:33 pm
You called me an insulting name. No I didn't. All you want to do is argue. This situation is all your fault.

Grow up, children.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 23, 2014, 03:02:16 pm
And for what it's worth, I always look forward to Ban's comments and don't consider him a major offender. If this makes me appear to be naive to what's going on, so be it, but these are my opinions.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 23, 2014, 03:07:40 pm
Two more thoughts: 1) I called you children. My apologies. I guess I'm as guilty as anyone. 2) I got Ban And Sparky to agree on something.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 03:16:26 pm
You called me an insulting name. No I didn't. All you want to do is argue. This situation is all your fault.

Grow up, children.

You are viewing a completely different thread than I am spider.  Maybe I should smoke whatever you are smoking next time before I log on and we could be on the same page.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 03:17:10 pm
Two more thoughts: 1) I called you children. My apologies. I guess I'm as guilty as anyone. 2) I got Ban And Sparky to agree on something.

Ban and I are usually in agreement so that was a pretty small accomplishment.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 03:48:15 pm
Apparently SVV decided he had enough, took his ball and went home. :(
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 23, 2014, 05:20:40 pm
This quote comes from the book, "The Fifth Discipline."

Makes a point that many of us need to take note of.

Quote
The core problem is that learning together starts when we actually listen to one another rather than just talk to one another. And listening is not easy. Reflective openness leads to looking inward, allowing our conversations to make us more aware of the biases and limitations in our own thinking, and how our thinking and actions contribute to the problems.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 23, 2014, 07:35:13 pm
Ok I have thought about this long and hard and it seems to me that our main obstacle here is capitalism and its control over freedom of speech.  See, if Ray simply wanted to improve the politics section I would understand since posters might complain.  But Ray is talking about eliminating it completely and there is no reason whatsoever for that than to please sponsors/investors that wish to eliminate certain discussions.  Otherwise, those that do not like politics section can simply avoid it and this problem is solved.


This is another sponsor problem that existed on the mat as well.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 23, 2014, 07:37:48 pm
Thank you, Tripster.  This thread has been entirely too serious up until now.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rain on May 24, 2014, 10:36:50 am
Here's my two cents.

This is a discussion forum.  There should be boundries and they should be well thought out, clear, and distinct. If a user feels they can not live within those those boundries they are free to be on their way or they should be sent on their way involuntarily.  This leads to the second point to Ray and other administrators.

This is a discussion board. And a healthy discussion board does require close moderation and support. It requires the time to redirect off-topic content, caution violations, encourage good topics, etc.  It can not do it on its own.  If you don't have the time to do the work, then hire or appoint fair moderators or do away with the discussion board altogether. 

Of course you can also choose to change your boundries but then don't whine about it when it deteriorates into a mess. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 24, 2014, 10:44:55 am
Here's my two cents.

This is a discussion forum.  There should be boundries and they should be well thought out, clear, and distinct. If a user feels they can not live within those those boundries they are free to be on their way or they should be sent on their way involuntarily.  This leads to the second point to Ray and other administrators.

This is a discussion board. And a healthy discussion board does require close moderation and support. It requires the time to redirect off-topic content, caution violations, encourage good topics, etc.  It can not do it on its own.  If you don't have the time to do the work, then hire or appoint fair moderators or do away with the discussion board altogether. 

Of course you can also choose to change your boundries but then don't whine about it when it deteriorates into a mess.

I volunteer to monitor the politics board. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 24, 2014, 10:48:49 am
I believe I have a plan, but I don't want to describe it until it's fully-baked.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 24, 2014, 11:06:14 am
I believe I have a plan, but I don't want to describe it until it's fully-baked.

It will probably be half-baked anyway. :P
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 24, 2014, 11:48:51 am
I believe I have a plan, but I don't want to describe it until it's fully-baked.

It will probably be half-baked anyway. :P

Actually... yeah.  But it'll at least be fully half-baked.  Quarter-baked solutions are right out; you have to have some standards in life.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 24, 2014, 12:11:12 pm
Here's my two cents.

This is a discussion forum.  There should be boundries and they should be well thought out, clear, and distinct. If a user feels they can not live within those those boundries they are free to be on their way or they should be sent on their way involuntarily.  This leads to the second point to Ray and other administrators.

This is a discussion board. And a healthy discussion board does require close moderation and support. It requires the time to redirect off-topic content, caution violations, encourage good topics, etc.  It can not do it on its own.  If you don't have the time to do the work, then hire or appoint fair moderators or do away with the discussion board altogether. 

Of course you can also choose to change your boundries but then don't whine about it when it deteriorates into a mess.

I volunteer to monitor the politics board.

I volunteer to monitor Sparky monitoring the politics board.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 24, 2014, 12:19:13 pm
Here's my two cents.

This is a discussion forum.  There should be boundries and they should be well thought out, clear, and distinct. If a user feels they can not live within those those boundries they are free to be on their way or they should be sent on their way involuntarily.  This leads to the second point to Ray and other administrators.

This is a discussion board. And a healthy discussion board does require close moderation and support. It requires the time to redirect off-topic content, caution violations, encourage good topics, etc.  It can not do it on its own.  If you don't have the time to do the work, then hire or appoint fair moderators or do away with the discussion board altogether. 

Of course you can also choose to change your boundries but then don't whine about it when it deteriorates into a mess.

I volunteer to monitor the politics board.

I volunteer to monitor Sparky monitoring the politics board.

That'll be a full time job.  You sure you are up to it?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 24, 2014, 02:37:19 pm
Here's my two cents.

This is a discussion forum.  There should be boundries and they should be well thought out, clear, and distinct. If a user feels they can not live within those those boundries they are free to be on their way or they should be sent on their way involuntarily.  This leads to the second point to Ray and other administrators.

This is a discussion board. And a healthy discussion board does require close moderation and support. It requires the time to redirect off-topic content, caution violations, encourage good topics, etc.  It can not do it on its own.  If you don't have the time to do the work, then hire or appoint fair moderators or do away with the discussion board altogether. 

Of course you can also choose to change your boundries but then don't whine about it when it deteriorates into a mess.

I volunteer to monitor the politics board.

I volunteer to monitor Sparky monitoring the politics board.

Beware...

(http://healwithgemstones.net/Images/green_vortex.jpg)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 25, 2014, 11:58:48 am
Here's my two cents.

This is a discussion forum.  There should be boundries and they should be well thought out, clear, and distinct. If a user feels they can not live within those those boundries they are free to be on their way or they should be sent on their way involuntarily.  This leads to the second point to Ray and other administrators.

This is a discussion board. And a healthy discussion board does require close moderation and support. It requires the time to redirect off-topic content, caution violations, encourage good topics, etc.  It can not do it on its own.  If you don't have the time to do the work, then hire or appoint fair moderators or do away with the discussion board altogether. 

Of course you can also choose to change your boundries but then don't whine about it when it deteriorates into a mess.

I volunteer to monitor the politics board.

I volunteer to monitor Sparky monitoring the politics board.

Beware...

(http://healwithgemstones.net/Images/green_vortex.jpg)

Thanks for the reminder of yet another way some of my antagonist would attack me on the forum.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 26, 2014, 09:46:41 am
Just an illustration of how a debate goes with you. Happy memorial day.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 26, 2014, 10:16:05 am
Just an illustration of how a debate goes with you. Happy memorial day.

How it goes if you do not have valid scientific evidence to support your position.  If you do, it is a no brainer and the debate doesn't last long.  Irrefutable evidence is a powerful thing but some trouble remembering that.  You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 27, 2014, 02:22:33 pm
Sparky,

That might work if you didn't use opinion and call it fact, dismiss anyone who disagrees as an idiot et al, and then go spinning into a vortex that apparently only you really understand.  You are quite capable but find more pleasure in being disagreeable on a personal level than in actually addressing the topic at hand.  That is why, other than this thread, that I do not respond to any of your posts.  It always ends the same. 

Idiots are generally more sufferable than know it all's who think that by denigrating others it makes them better.  That is simply schoolyard bully tactics that has no place here.  A simple "agree to disagree" statement would be much preferable. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 27, 2014, 03:40:19 pm
Sparky,

That might work if you didn't use opinion and call it fact, dismiss anyone who disagrees as an idiot et al, and then go spinning into a vortex that apparently only you really understand.  You are quite capable but find more pleasure in being disagreeable on a personal level than in actually addressing the topic at hand.  That is why, other than this thread, that I do not respond to any of your posts.  It always ends the same. 

Idiots are generally more sufferable than know it all's who think that by denigrating others it makes them better.  That is simply schoolyard bully tactics that has no place here.  A simple "agree to disagree" statement would be much preferable. 

mspart

There you go with another attack post.  And you claim to be above the fray.  What a joke that is.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 27, 2014, 04:21:56 pm
Sparky,

That might work if you didn't use opinion and call it fact, dismiss anyone who disagrees as an idiot et al, and then go spinning into a vortex that apparently only you really understand.  You are quite capable but find more pleasure in being disagreeable on a personal level than in actually addressing the topic at hand.  That is why, other than this thread, that I do not respond to any of your posts.  It always ends the same. 

Idiots are generally more sufferable than know it all's who think that by denigrating others it makes them better.  That is simply schoolyard bully tactics that has no place here.  A simple "agree to disagree" statement would be much preferable. 

mspart

There you go with another attack post.  And you claim to be above the fray.  What a joke that is.

Thank you for not resorting to name calling.  I expected that that would be the case.  I very much appreciate that it was not.  I stand by what I said as a description of the past.  If it no longer applies, my apologies.  As I have always said, you are smart and have much to contribute. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 27, 2014, 06:08:28 pm
Sparky,

That might work if you didn't use opinion and call it fact, dismiss anyone who disagrees as an idiot et al, and then go spinning into a vortex that apparently only you really understand.  You are quite capable but find more pleasure in being disagreeable on a personal level than in actually addressing the topic at hand.  That is why, other than this thread, that I do not respond to any of your posts.  It always ends the same. 

Idiots are generally more sufferable than know it all's who think that by denigrating others it makes them better.  That is simply schoolyard bully tactics that has no place here.  A simple "agree to disagree" statement would be much preferable. 

mspart

There you go with another attack post.  And you claim to be above the fray.  What a joke that is.

Thank you for not resorting to name calling.  I expected that that would be the case.  I very much appreciate that it was not.  I stand by what I said as a description of the past.  If it no longer applies, my apologies.  As I have always said, you are smart and have much to contribute. 

mspart


Good to know you admit it was an attack post, also good to know you stand behind your attack.  Reminds me of when you stood behind your continual hate speech about muslims (very similar to 1940's anti-semitic language) and my pointing it out which got me on your ignore list.  Something I quite enjoyed by the way.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 27, 2014, 07:38:20 pm
  Art, I can hear the swirl already. It's begun... lol
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 27, 2014, 07:51:31 pm
  Art, I can hear the swirl already. It's begun... lol

Another attack post coming from leggy.  What happened to being civil?

Guess you two just don't know how to be civil.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 09:33:24 am
Vigorous debate is the best thing we can hope to have, here. It is for precisely this reason that personal attacks, for instance, are prohibited. Not because they aren't true: the person you call a liar vortex, know it all or an idiot schoolyard bully may actually be one.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 09:34:43 am
Vigorous debate is the best thing we can hope to have, here. It is for precisely this reason that personal attacks, for instance, are prohibited. Not because they aren't true: the person you call a liar vortex, know it all or an idiot schoolyard bully may actually be one.

In other words a personal attack is a personal attack regardless of what words you substitute in there.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 28, 2014, 10:41:05 am
To be fair, nobody called you a vortex.  They indicated that discussions with you turn into a vortex.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 10:49:25 am
To be fair, nobody called you a vortex.  They indicated that discussions with you turn into a vortex.

That is name calling and it is indeed calling me a vortex.  Do a search, the mindless vortex is what they call me.  It is undoubtedly namecalling.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 28, 2014, 11:17:19 am
  Art, I can hear the swirl already. It's begun... lol

Agreed.  Sparky said "Good to know you admit it was an attack post, also good to know you stand behind your attack."  I did not admit it was an attack post.  This is the problem with Sparky.  He takes a statement, spins it to mean something that it does not mean, and then steers the discussion away from the subject matter.  Classic!  That is too bad.  I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and he removed all doubt.  I wish things could be different, he could add a lot to any discussion.  Instead he chooses not to. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 28, 2014, 11:25:23 am
Question for anyone who wants one:  what's your goal in this conversation, and how's it coming along?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 28, 2014, 11:33:05 am
My goal, after this thread was started, was to have a genuine discussion of how we can better behave.  It is not going too well. 

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 28, 2014, 11:33:30 am
I'm here to provide color commentary.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on May 28, 2014, 11:38:48 am
Do a search, the mindless vortex is what they call me.  It is undoubtedly namecalling.

I find 28 times "mindless vortex" was written and you are the author of 17 of those leaving 11 posts in 9999 days written by others.  That's just the facts.  No spin, no hype, no embellishment.  That is simply what the search found. 

mspart

 

Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 28, 2014, 11:42:06 am
Question for anyone who wants one:  what's your goal in this conversation, and how's it coming along?

I hoped we would get multiple comments on what we could do to create a viable political forum and I offered a few suggestions.

I'm not as hopeful now as I was when the thread started.

Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 28, 2014, 11:43:31 am
Art, so you admit to calling Sparky a mindless Vortex 11 times. Nice to know. J/k.   :P

Btw, I never heard that term before Sparky mentioned it. I like it.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 28, 2014, 12:32:22 pm
We are no worse off now than we were a few weeks ago,

Judging from the direction this thread has taken, I don't think we're much better off either.

Case made. And BTW, I agree with mspart.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 28, 2014, 02:18:10 pm
The case is and should be that it is not the subject of discussion, but rather the individuals that want to draw people into arguments. With or without a political discusion board, you still have the same problem.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 28, 2014, 02:54:32 pm
The case is and should be that it is not the subject of discussion, but rather the individuals that want to draw people into arguments. With or without a political discusion board, you still have the same problem.

Sad, leglace, but probably true. Some topics do tend to bring out the worst in people, but still they are who they are and are unlikely to change.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on May 28, 2014, 03:10:35 pm
Even this discussion turned into a trainwreck.  Unless the topic is wrestling almost all discussions eventually spiral downhill.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on May 28, 2014, 03:31:44 pm
The case is and should be that it is not the subject of discussion, but rather the individuals that want to draw people into arguments. With or without a political discusion board, you still have the same problem.

Ain't gonna let you somehow claim immunity to this.  As we always said in Minnesota, "it takes two to tango," and you also goaded people into these discussions.   ;)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 28, 2014, 05:50:30 pm
I have a solution!  If someone calls another poster a name that incident should get reported and if true the attacker gets assigned an unfavorable name instead of his usual name.

I suggest Kim Jung Un for conservative posters and Rush Limbaugh for liberal posters..

Since more than one poster can be under this alias we can simply make it Rush Limbaugh 1,2,3 and so on.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 28, 2014, 05:56:00 pm
The unfavorable name should stick for a week or two. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 06:15:52 pm
Do a search, the mindless vortex is what they call me.  It is undoubtedly namecalling.

I find 28 times "mindless vortex" was written and you are the author of 17 of those leaving 11 posts in 9999 days written by others.  That's just the facts.  No spin, no hype, no embellishment.  That is simply what the search found. 

mspart

 

So you do understand that eveytimd I respnd go some post in which I was called a mindless vortex it shows up under my post.  So what your search proves is that I responded 16 times to such post since today was the forest time I ever typed it myself.  Thanks for proving me right.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 06:46:16 pm
Question for anyone who wants one:  what's your goal in this conversation, and how's it coming along?

My goal in the latest exchange is to help mspart and leggy see that they have begun attacks on me and yet I have not responded. in kind but have instead addressed that issue.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 06:52:06 pm
Oh and for the second part of your question, it is not going so well.  They do not like me holding up a mirror that shows them as they trulyare.  Not my quote at the bottom of all my posts.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 07:47:12 pm
The case is and should be that it is not the subject of discussion, but rather the individuals that want to draw people into arguments. With or without a political discusion board, you still have the same problem.

Ain't gonna let you somehow claim immunity to this.  As we always said in Minnesota, "it takes two to tango," and you also goaded people into these discussions.   ;)

Absolutely leggy bares responsibility for doing it as does ms who is the person who started it here with his name calling attack post.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 07:48:27 pm
I have a solution!  If someone calls another poster a name that incident should get reported and if true the attacker gets assigned an unfavorable name instead of his usual name.

I suggest Kim Jung Un for conservative posters and Rush Limbaugh for liberal posters..

Since more than one poster can be under this alias we can simply make it Rush Limbaugh 1,2,3 and so on.

I reported both ms and leggy.  Don't know what the moderators did if anything.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 28, 2014, 07:54:57 pm
I have a solution!  If someone calls another poster a name that incident should get reported and if true the attacker gets assigned an unfavorable name instead of his usual name.

I suggest Kim Jung Un for conservative posters and Rush Limbaugh for liberal posters..

Since more than one poster can be under this alias we can simply make it Rush Limbaugh 1,2,3 and so on.

I reported both ms and leggy.  Don't know what the moderators did if anything.

Nothing.  However it was noted.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 28, 2014, 08:09:11 pm
I have a solution!  If someone calls another poster a name that incident should get reported and if true the attacker gets assigned an unfavorable name instead of his usual name.

I suggest Kim Jung Un for conservative posters and Rush Limbaugh for liberal posters..

Since more than one poster can be under this alias we can simply make it Rush Limbaugh 1,2,3 and so on.

You might rotate it among several names, such as Obama, Pelosi and Hillary for conservatives and Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck for liberals (unless it would be more embarrassing for them to be called Cheney, Bush and Rove).  I'm not sure what you would do to moderates, but they usually aren't strident enough to need punishment.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on May 28, 2014, 08:12:26 pm
I have a solution!  If someone calls another poster a name that incident should get reported and if true the attacker gets assigned an unfavorable name instead of his usual name.

I suggest Kim Jung Un for conservative posters and Rush Limbaugh for liberal posters..

Since more than one poster can be under this alias we can simply make it Rush Limbaugh 1,2,3 and so on.

I reported both ms and leggy.  Don't know what the moderators did if anything.

Nothing.  However it was noted.

And all of the whining (on all sides) will probably be one more nail in the coffin for the political forum.  *SIGH*.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 28, 2014, 08:21:21 pm
I have a solution!  If someone calls another poster a name that incident should get reported and if true the attacker gets assigned an unfavorable name instead of his usual name.

I suggest Kim Jung Un for conservative posters and Rush Limbaugh for liberal posters..

Since more than one poster can be under this alias we can simply make it Rush Limbaugh 1,2,3 and so on.

I reported both ms and leggy.  Don't know what the moderators did if anything.

Nothing.  However it was noted.

And all of the whining (on all sides) will probably be one more nail in the coffin for the political forum.  *SIGH*.


And if that is the case so be it.  It has been clearly demonstrated in this read, some who think they never violate the rules in fact do.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 28, 2014, 09:20:39 pm
Nice try Sparky, we are not allowing ourselves to get sucked in to your trap.

To answer Ray's question, my goal in this thread is to demonstrate that bad behavior is not remedied by eliminating topics of discussion. No matter what the suject matter is, any individual is capable of turning a discussion into a vortex of negative debate. I would like to see bad behavior put on notice or suspension if needed, and to have the political board back. I don't have much passion to argue for the evolution forum though.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 28, 2014, 09:38:11 pm
Nice try Sparky, we are not allowing ourselves to get sucked in to your trap.

To answer Ray's question, my goal in this thread is to demonstrate that bad behavior is not remedied by eliminating topics of discussion. No matter what the suject matter is, any individual is capable of turning a discussion into a vortex of negative debate. I would like to see bad behavior put on notice or suspension if needed, and to have the political board back. I don't have much passion to argue for the evolution forum though.

So... you're trying to bring back the political board by behaving badly?

Kudos for thinking outside the box, but I'm thinking this strategy isn't going to pan out for you.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on May 28, 2014, 11:53:33 pm
I have a solution!  If someone calls another poster a name that incident should get reported and if true the attacker gets assigned an unfavorable name instead of his usual name.

I suggest Kim Jung Un for conservative posters and Rush Limbaugh for liberal posters..

Since more than one poster can be under this alias we can simply make it Rush Limbaugh 1,2,3 and so on.


Yeah...that'd bring it all to a grinding halt... Fur sure
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 29, 2014, 01:32:19 am
Temporary
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: leglace on May 29, 2014, 01:33:17 am
Later dudes its been fun.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 29, 2014, 09:20:54 am
Later dudes its been fun.

Sorry to see you choose to leave leggy.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 29, 2014, 04:05:10 pm
Since some people have asked privately when a decision will be made, I want to state more plainly that a decision has been made. The boards in question are closed. I am leaving open the possibility that a decision may be made to re-open them, when there is reason to think that the result will be significantly different than in the past.

This conversation has significantly contributed to this decision, though it may yet contribute to altering it.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on May 29, 2014, 04:40:10 pm
RIP "Politics - General" and "Miscellaneous - Evolution(?)" ... although like Jesus Christ, they may be resurrected.  So, check back in 3 days.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: SingletSlinger on May 29, 2014, 04:53:53 pm
I really enjoyed the Politics - General" and "Miscellaneous - Evolution(?) era.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 29, 2014, 05:01:54 pm
Since some people have asked privately when a decision will be made, I want to state more plainly that a decision has been made. The boards in question are closed. I am leaving open the possibility that a decision may be made to re-open them, when there is reason to think that the result will be significantly different than in the past.

This conversation has significantly contributed to this decision, though it may yet contribute to altering it.

This really begs the question, why can we still see the boards, they should be removed as themat.com did when they closed them down.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 29, 2014, 05:06:10 pm
Since some people have asked privately when a decision will be made, I want to state more plainly that a decision has been made. The boards in question are closed. I am leaving open the possibility that a decision may be made to re-open them, when there is reason to think that the result will be significantly different than in the past.

This conversation has significantly contributed to this decision, though it may yet contribute to altering it.

This really begs the question, why can we still see the boards, they should be removed as themat.com did when they closed them down.

I don't know where this "should" comes from, but they will not be removed.  First, because there is the possibility of re-opening them.  Second, because I intend to give the people who participated in those discussions access to their own writing.  Third, because it has never been our policy to alter or remove history.  It is possible, however, that they may be made invisible to non-members.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 29, 2014, 05:35:55 pm
Since some people have asked privately when a decision will be made, I want to state more plainly that a decision has been made. The boards in question are closed. I am leaving open the possibility that a decision may be made to re-open them, when there is reason to think that the result will be significantly different than in the past.

This conversation has significantly contributed to this decision, though it may yet contribute to altering it.

This really begs the question, why can we still see the boards, they should be removed as themat.com did when they closed them down.

I don't know where this "should" comes from, but they will not be removed.  First, because there is the possibility of re-opening them.  Second, because I intend to give the people who participated in those discussions access to their own writing.  Third, because it has never been our policy to alter or remove history.  It is possible, however, that they may be made invisible to non-members.

Should come from the concept that engineers follow in removing unnecessary, redundant, wasteful use of space.  The term clutter is usually used.  I know not everyones mind works in efficient use of space whether it is actual physical space or virtual space.  Lord knows a hoarders mind doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 29, 2014, 05:43:18 pm
Let those of us who are unnecessary, redundant, and wasteful be also thankful.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 29, 2014, 07:38:53 pm
Willing posters are free to use my old board for politics:

http://wrestlingfanatic.proboards.com/

Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 29, 2014, 07:43:07 pm
Thank you, Tripster, that's good of you.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 29, 2014, 07:49:14 pm
" Second, because I intend to give the people who participated in those discussions access to their own writing."

This is appreciated. Some posts I have  taken a lot of time and to write (not too many on this board though), and it disconcerting to see them evaporate.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 29, 2014, 08:09:04 pm
If an event such as the Boston marathon attack occurs, discussion will be relegated to "off topic" I suppose. I still like the idea of a current evens folder.


Mr.  Brinzer. From what I have seen you are a  bright guy with a nice writing style, but I'm confused about what you are looking for in this thread. I see room for improvement in structure. And it's impact, in part, should be psychological for participants. Instead what we have in this thread is some kind of experiment that is tantamount to escorting a  bunch of children into a room, leaving them alone  and witnessing whether than can self-supervise.

The result is clear, with a sad number of posts addressed specifically to, and ABOUT, another forum member.  The topic of this thread is not which forum members each of us have had arguments with in the past, and the nature of those "disagreements".

Moderation is a must and has been for every message board I've participated in.

 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 29, 2014, 08:20:40 pm
It is possible, however, that they may be made invisible to non-members.

Excellent idea. I, too, will miss these boards, but I agree that the tone of the discussions (just like this thread) had deteriorated to the point where the bad outweighed the good.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on May 29, 2014, 09:14:50 pm
"The tears began to flow and sobs shook him. He gave himself up to them now for the first time on the island; great, shuddering spasms of grief that seemed to wrench his whole body. His voice rose under the black smoke before the burning wreckage of the island; and infected by that emotion, the other little boys began to shake and sob too. And in the middle of them, with filthy body, matted hair, and unwiped nose, Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy".
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on May 29, 2014, 09:16:21 pm
Mr.  Brinzer. From what I have seen you are a  bright guy with a nice writing style, but I'm confused about what you are looking for in this thread.

Thank you.  I have been looking for a number of things, one of which I stated:

Good, I'm glad you guys are talking.  Here's a chance to have a civil discussion about civil discussions.  See if you can come to some kind of agreement on how you're going to get along.

I see room for improvement in structure. And it's impact, in part, should be psychological for participants. Instead what we have in this thread is some kind of experiment that is tantamount to escorting a  bunch of children into a room, leaving them alone  and witnessing whether than can self-supervise.

Somewhat, yes.  If people had managed to have a civil and honest discussion about our problems, re-opening the boards would have seemed worthwhile.  This would have been the easiest and best solution to the problem.  As it is, however, we now have the problem in isolation, without the extraneous business of this or that political topic.  And people get to say lots of stuff, which helps me make decisions.

The result is clear, with a sad number of posts addressed specifically to, and ABOUT, another forum member.  The topic of this thread is not which forum members each of us have had arguments with in the past, and the nature of those "disagreements".

Moderation is a must and has been for every message board I've participated in.

Moderation is indeed necessary; how much moderation is an important question, though.  This not, and will not be, anyone's profession.  If the requirements of a message board without political discussion are a lot lower than those of a board with, then it may be that this is the option we need to take. 

We've had a problem which has dragged on for years; I mean to solve it, at this point.  The short time the political topics have been closed is a comparatively small investment.  And while I alluded to another solution earlier, I haven't had time to implement a trial yet.  (Sorry to be mysterious about this; I hope to explain better soon.)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on May 31, 2014, 12:23:17 pm
"If people had managed to have a civil and honest discussion about our problems, re-opening the boards would have seemed worthwhile."

Changing "if people...." to "if the very few people who weighed in....." would seem more accurate.


The majority are silent.

I suppose the test is yet to come, when non-wrestling-related world events will have wrestling fans wanting to make observations SOMEWHERE that they feel comfortable.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 31, 2014, 12:49:30 pm
"If people had managed to have a civil and honest discussion about our problems, re-opening the boards would have seemed worthwhile."

Changing "if people...." to "if the very few people who weighed in....." would seem more accurate.


The majority are silent.

I suppose the test is yet to come, when non-wrestling-related world events will have wrestling fans wanting to make observations SOMEWHERE that they feel comfortable.

Go here to do that.

http://wrestlingfanatic.proboards.com/


Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 31, 2014, 05:28:27 pm
"If people had managed to have a civil and honest discussion about our problems, re-opening the boards would have seemed worthwhile."

Changing "if people...." to "if the very few people who weighed in....." would seem more accurate.


The majority are silent.

I suppose the test is yet to come, when non-wrestling-related world events will have wrestling fans wanting to make observations SOMEWHERE that they feel comfortable.

Go here to do that.

http://wrestlingfanatic.proboards.com/

From the moderator of that site:

"Discuss, fight, on here you are free to do it. I would of course encourage everyone to be friendly but if you must you must. Freedom is what its all about!"

And a quote from Lord of the Flies by William Golding:

“Kill the pig. Cut her throat. Spill her blood.”

I'm happy where I am.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 31, 2014, 06:49:34 pm
As a Spider I am sure you have done your share of blood sucking.  Come catch a few flies with us.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 31, 2014, 08:36:21 pm
It is about freedom of expression unencumbered.  Few sites offer it.  Certainly not the supposedly "open" mat.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: RYou on May 31, 2014, 08:56:37 pm
It is about freedom of expression unencumbered.  Few sites offer it.  Certainly not the supposedly "open" mat.

Freedom of expression means the government can't muzzle you.  You are not in a public space and this site is not operated by the government so you have so such right.  You survive on the whim of the property owner.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on May 31, 2014, 09:13:33 pm
Does it really matter who limits your freedom?  The point is our freedom has been limited here.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 31, 2014, 10:00:48 pm
Freedom from rules? Freedom to act like a spoiled child? Thanks, but I'll pass.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 31, 2014, 10:15:24 pm
It is about freedom of expression unencumbered.  Few sites offer it.  Certainly not the supposedly "open" mat.

Freedom of expression means the government can't muzzle you.  You are not in a public space and this site is not operated by the government so you have so such right.  You survive on the whim of the property owner.

I understand and agree completely with this statement.  Howerver It does not change the simple truth that the "open" mat is not in fact open for freedom of expression and that was all I was stating.  There is really no arguing my point.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 31, 2014, 10:16:07 pm
Does it really matter who limits your freedom?  The point is our freedom has been limited here.

This statement is absolutely spot on correct.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on May 31, 2014, 10:17:08 pm
Freedom from rules? Freedom to act like a spoiled child? Thanks, but I'll pass.

As of course everyone has the right to do.  If you need mom and dad to regulate an area so you are not offended in any way.  This is just right for you.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on May 31, 2014, 10:38:21 pm
I have never been offended by any of the ideas or topics that have been discussed or debated on these forums. I have been offended by the hijacking of threads by those that feel the need to turn things into personal attacks on a regular basis.

If showing a little respect and decency towards others who have ideas and beliefs that differ from yours is too much for you then I am happy to see that Trippy' has provided you with an alternative.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on May 31, 2014, 11:50:11 pm
When I was in high school, my coach told us that wrestlers are gentlemen and that how we conduct ourselves on and off the mat reflects on our school and our sport. Early in my college career, I was in a close match with a very good opponent. I was on top and he bridged back and pinned me while I was "in control." I came off the mat and said an expletive which could be heard by the fans. My coach came over to me and I expected him to console me on a tough loss, but instead he laid into me for not accepting my loss gracefully and reacting poorly. As I matured as a wrestler and a coach, I learned and have taught that how well a wrestler behaves is as least as important as how well he wrestles, and that this will influence how the public views wrestling. It is very gratifying to me to see the intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom exhibited by many of the "brutes" on these forums. It speaks highly of the kind of people that our sport attracts and creates. Similarly, it's too bad that some let their egos and competitive natures lower the level of discourse to a point where I'm embarrassed to participate. It is discouraging to learn that some people are proud to join a wrestling forum where immaturity and lack of respect masquerade as freedom. In fact, it's discouraging that such a forum even exists, and I hope that no young wrestlers or parents ever discover it. Wrestling builds character, but sometimes it just creates characters.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rockhard on June 01, 2014, 12:36:16 am
There are clearly 3 people who are too ignorant to realize they are the real problem on these boards and have ruined it for others. CTC, Spanky and Ban.

You three have truly ruined this board.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 01, 2014, 11:42:30 am
There are clearly 3 people who are too ignorant to realize they are the real problem on these boards and have ruined it for others. CTC, Spanky and Ban.

You three have truly ruined this board.

Two of those three are intelligent enough to know that contributed to the issues and have freely admitted their part. One lives with the delusion that he is squeaky clean.  You yourself Rock were  a very large contributor to the problem.  Maybe not quite to the same degree but just a tad bit less, but I am sure you recognize that too.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 01, 2014, 12:35:49 pm
When I was in high school, my coach told us that wrestlers are gentlemen and that how we conduct ourselves on and off the mat reflects on our school and our sport. Early in my college career, I was in a close match with a very good opponent. I was on top and he bridged back and pinned me while I was "in control." I came off the mat and said an expletive which could be heard by the fans. My coach came over to me and I expected him to console me on a tough loss, but instead he laid into me for not accepting my loss gracefully and reacting poorly. As I matured as a wrestler and a coach, I learned and have taught that how well a wrestler behaves is as least as important as how well he wrestles, and that this will influence how the public views wrestling. It is very gratifying to me to see the intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom exhibited by many of the "brutes" on these forums. It speaks highly of the kind of people that our sport attracts and creates. Similarly, it's too bad that some let their egos and competitive natures lower the level of discourse to a point where I'm embarrassed to participate. It is discouraging to learn that some people are proud to join a wrestling forum where immaturity and lack of respect masquerade as freedom. In fact, it's discouraging that such a forum even exists, and I hope that no young wrestlers or parents ever discover it. Wrestling builds character, but sometimes it just creates characters.

Interesting perspective.  Pretty far from reality which is what makes it even more interesting. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on June 01, 2014, 08:23:43 pm
I guess it depends on the coach and program.  My coach held us to a high standard.  He told us that if anyone was going to get tossed out of the gym, it would be him.  He kept that promise on a few occasions, but he expected us to behave.  If you didn't, you sat, whether you were a scrub or a star.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 01, 2014, 08:28:02 pm
I guess it depends on the coach and program.  My coach held us to a high standard.  He told us that if anyone was going to get tossed out of the gym, it would be him.  He kept that promise on a few occasions, but he expected us to behave.  If you didn't, you sat, whether you were a scrub or a star.

Nope, has nothing to do with the coach and the program.  I agree with that part of his comment.  It was the other parts which are not the real world I have experienced.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 02, 2014, 11:05:38 am
When I was in high school, my coach told us that wrestlers are gentlemen and that how we conduct ourselves on and off the mat reflects on our school and our sport. Early in my college career, I was in a close match with a very good opponent. I was on top and he bridged back and pinned me while I was "in control." I came off the mat and said an expletive which could be heard by the fans. My coach came over to me and I expected him to console me on a tough loss, but instead he laid into me for not accepting my loss gracefully and reacting poorly. As I matured as a wrestler and a coach, I learned and have taught that how well a wrestler behaves is as least as important as how well he wrestles, and that this will influence how the public views wrestling. It is very gratifying to me to see the intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom exhibited by many of the "brutes" on these forums. It speaks highly of the kind of people that our sport attracts and creates. Similarly, it's too bad that some let their egos and competitive natures lower the level of discourse to a point where I'm embarrassed to participate. It is discouraging to learn that some people are proud to join a wrestling forum where immaturity and lack of respect masquerade as freedom. In fact, it's discouraging that such a forum even exists, and I hope that no young wrestlers or parents ever discover it. Wrestling builds character, but sometimes it just creates characters.

Spider,

Thank you for such an insightful perspective.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 02, 2014, 11:15:47 am
When I was in high school, my coach told us that wrestlers are gentlemen and that how we conduct ourselves on and off the mat reflects on our school and our sport. Early in my college career, I was in a close match with a very good opponent. I was on top and he bridged back and pinned me while I was "in control." I came off the mat and said an expletive which could be heard by the fans. My coach came over to me and I expected him to console me on a tough loss, but instead he laid into me for not accepting my loss gracefully and reacting poorly. As I matured as a wrestler and a coach, I learned and have taught that how well a wrestler behaves is as least as important as how well he wrestles, and that this will influence how the public views wrestling. It is very gratifying to me to see the intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom exhibited by many of the "brutes" on these forums. It speaks highly of the kind of people that our sport attracts and creates. Similarly, it's too bad that some let their egos and competitive natures lower the level of discourse to a point where I'm embarrassed to participate. It is discouraging to learn that some people are proud to join a wrestling forum where immaturity and lack of respect masquerade as freedom. In fact, it's discouraging that such a forum even exists, and I hope that no young wrestlers or parents ever discover it. Wrestling builds character, but sometimes it just creates characters.

Spider,

Thank you for such an insightful perspective.

mspart

Thank you, mspart.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 02, 2014, 11:21:54 am
I agree with mspart.  I found spider's post to be quite insightful and Bob H's response a worthy follow-up.  Thank you for your contributions.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 02, 2014, 11:32:02 am
I agree with mspart.  I found spider's post to be quite insightful and Bob H's response a worthy follow-up.  Thank you for your contributions.

And thank you too, MetsFan.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 02, 2014, 11:53:08 am
oddly enough it is the highlighted part of spiders post which fails a reality check:

Quote
It is discouraging to learn that some people are proud to join a wrestling forum where immaturity and lack of respect masquerade as freedom. In fact, it's discouraging that such a forum even exists, and I hope that no young wrestlers or parents ever discover it. Wrestling builds character, but sometimes it just creates characters.

No such forum does exist and most certainly, noone I would know or care to associate with would be proud to be a part of such a forum.  However a forum does exist that allows true freedom of expression and that is something to be proud to be a part of.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on June 02, 2014, 03:22:32 pm
I nominate Spider for moderator if the political threads ever are resurrected. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 02, 2014, 03:53:38 pm
If you try to live in a sheltered world you will never find truth.  Face reality, act like you personally want to act, set example for others, and also learn things from others rather than hide behind artificial rules.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 02, 2014, 03:56:49 pm
If you try to live in a sheltered world you will never find truth.  Face reality, act like you personally want to act, set example for others, and also learn things from others rather than hide behind artificial rules.

That is the true measure of maturity.  Thanks trip.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 02, 2014, 04:18:47 pm
Thanks coach!

Many criminals and disillusioned people in this world are actually good people that were misunderstood in life and dealt harshly with.  We need to engage them and their troubles rather than throw them out on the street.  Every person was once an innocent little baby and what they become and how they act is only a product of our society.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 02, 2014, 04:30:07 pm
If you try to live in a sheltered world you will never find truth.  Face reality, act like you personally want to act, set example for others, and also learn things from others rather than hide behind artificial rules.

Tripster, the most radical ideas and fervent beliefs can be expressed with decorum and respect. Ad hominem remarks detract from an argument rather than enhance it. Rules of proper conduct don't provide a place for anyone to hide, but they do provide an excuse to run.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 02, 2014, 04:35:18 pm
You are right Spider but I would still rather face ad hominem attacks but hear what some person has to complain about than simply not hear him at all.  And this is what I said on the new forum.  I don't encourage them but I will not punish anyone if they must use that kind of language which they were taught in our society.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 02, 2014, 04:37:44 pm
In other words I will take a genius idea with an ad hominem attack rather than some nonsense presented in a polite style.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 02, 2014, 04:44:44 pm
You are right Spider but I would still rather face ad hominem attacks but hear what some person has to complain about than simply not hear him at all.  And this is what I said on the new forum.  I don't encourage them but I will not punish anyone if they must use that kind of language which they were taught in our society.

I understand. For me, though, when someone peppers an argument with personal insults, it usually means that they're trying to draw your attention away from a weak position. It just isn't necessary and mature people should realize that.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 02, 2014, 04:56:13 pm
You are right Spider but I would still rather face ad hominem attacks but hear what some person has to complain about than simply not hear him at all.  And this is what I said on the new forum.  I don't encourage them but I will not punish anyone if they must use that kind of language which they were taught in our society.

I understand. For me, though, when someone peppers an argument with personal insults, it usually means that they're trying to draw your attention away from a weak position. It just isn't necessary and mature people should realize that.

I view this situation as one to my advantage since that means I am winning the argument and all the more desire to not be drawn away from the main argument and stay focused on topic.  In the end its all about who is more persuasive.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on June 02, 2014, 05:02:33 pm
Trip, you have always been respectful of other posters on every forum that I have seen you on. Without controversy, no, but that is the nature of the beast. Had other interacted on these boards in the manner that you do we would not find ourselves at the crossroad that we are currently at.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 02, 2014, 07:21:24 pm
+100 to Spidey and Jeff.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on June 03, 2014, 09:47:47 pm
It's too bad the political board isn't up.  It would be interesting right now with the scandals du jour.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 04, 2014, 07:16:02 am
It's too bad the political board isn't up.  It would be interesting right now with the scandals du jour.

Discuss it here:

http://wrestlingfanatic.proboards.com/
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 04, 2014, 12:04:30 pm
Not much there yet.  I saw an interesting exchange between sparky and jointdoc on the role of government.  Perhaps there will be more and perhaps I will go over.  But I think not.  With no rules regarding decorum, I feel it will degrade fairly rapidly. 

Thanks for providing the alternate Trippy.  Very committed of you.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 04, 2014, 12:07:32 pm
Not much there yet.  I saw an interesting exchange between sparky and jointdoc on the role of government.  Perhaps there will be more and perhaps I will go over.  But I think not.  With no rules regarding decorum, I feel it will degrade fairly rapidly. 

Thanks for providing the alternate Trippy.  Very committed of you.

mspart

And did you see anything abusive or uncalled for in our exchange?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 04, 2014, 02:01:53 pm
Not much there yet.  I saw an interesting exchange between sparky and jointdoc on the role of government.  Perhaps there will be more and perhaps I will go over.  But I think not.  With no rules regarding decorum, I feel it will degrade fairly rapidly. 

Thanks for providing the alternate Trippy.  Very committed of you.

mspart

Mspart, I share your doubts. I believe that right now everyone over there is on their best behavior, but I wonder how long it will last. If it does represent a change of attitudes, that's great, but then they wouldn't have had to leave here.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 04, 2014, 02:07:42 pm
Not much there yet.  I saw an interesting exchange between sparky and jointdoc on the role of government.  Perhaps there will be more and perhaps I will go over.  But I think not.  With no rules regarding decorum, I feel it will degrade fairly rapidly. 

Thanks for providing the alternate Trippy.  Very committed of you.

mspart

Mspart, I share your doubts. I believe that right now everyone over there is on their best behavior, but I wonder how long it will last. If it does represent a change of attitudes, that's great, but then they wouldn't have had to leave here.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody over there has had to leave here.  Do you know of any.  Trip, myself, RV and jointdoc have not had to. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 04, 2014, 02:11:20 pm
Not much there yet.  I saw an interesting exchange between sparky and jointdoc on the role of government.  Perhaps there will be more and perhaps I will go over.  But I think not.  With no rules regarding decorum, I feel it will degrade fairly rapidly. 

Thanks for providing the alternate Trippy.  Very committed of you.

mspart

Mspart, I share your doubts. I believe that right now everyone over there is on their best behavior, but I wonder how long it will last. If it does represent a change of attitudes, that's great, but then they wouldn't have had to leave here.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody over there has had to leave here.  Do you know of any.  Trip, myself, RV and jointdoc have not had to.

Sparky, I'm going to break one of my cardinal rules just this once and respond to your post. By "had to" I didn't mean that anyone was forced to leave, I meant that they wouldn't have felt the need to leave.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 04, 2014, 02:25:27 pm
Well you can't discuss politics here anymore.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 04, 2014, 02:35:43 pm
Well you can't discuss politics here anymore.

True, and if that restriction continues, that's a good reason to find a place where you can discuss controversial issues. My point was that if some people (and I do NOT include you, Tripster) had been on their best behavior here, the circumstances which caused them to want to leave would not have occurred.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Tripster on June 04, 2014, 03:09:50 pm
I don't know.  I have been called names on this forum for many years.  Why close down now?  There might be a more complex reason we don't know.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 04, 2014, 03:15:58 pm
Not much there yet.  I saw an interesting exchange between sparky and jointdoc on the role of government.  Perhaps there will be more and perhaps I will go over.  But I think not.  With no rules regarding decorum, I feel it will degrade fairly rapidly. 

Thanks for providing the alternate Trippy.  Very committed of you.

mspart

Mspart, I share your doubts. I believe that right now everyone over there is on their best behavior, but I wonder how long it will last. If it does represent a change of attitudes, that's great, but then they wouldn't have had to leave here.

I could try, but would be unsuccessful in trying to agree with you more.  Well put.  +10!

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 04, 2014, 03:23:20 pm
I don't know.  I have been called names on this forum for many years.  Why close down now?  There might be a more complex reason we don't know.

I'm not a moderator, nor am I in touch with one, but I suspect that the degree of name calling and general insults had gotten to the point where Ray felt that something had to be done. As I said very early on when this happened, I had noticed it and was really reluctant to participate. I don't think I'm particularly thin skinned, but I find it difficult to have a meaningful exchange when my arguments are ignored and instead my intelligence (or more recently, my grip on reality) is attacked.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on June 04, 2014, 03:35:20 pm
I don't know.  I have been called names on this forum for many years.  Why close down now?  There might be a more complex reason we don't know.

I truly hope your forum gains enough members that someone starts concocting conspiracies with you at the center.  Apparently the only way to grasp how silly this is will be to experience it yourself.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 04, 2014, 04:32:51 pm
Well you can't discuss politics here anymore.

True, and if that restriction continues, that's a good reason to find a place where you can discuss controversial issues. My point was that if some people (and I do NOT include you, Tripster) had been on their best behavior here, the circumstances which caused them to want to leave would not have occurred.

Yep, I agree.  And Trip is not as clean as a whistle either.  As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 04, 2014, 04:36:17 pm
I don't know.  I have been called names on this forum for many years.  Why close down now?  There might be a more complex reason we don't know.

I truly hope your forum gains enough members that someone starts concocting conspiracies with you at the center.  Apparently the only way to grasp how silly this is will be to experience it yourself.

Conspiracies with you at the center.  Wow really, that is interesting.  You have your minions ray but not that much power, unless you've joined forces with the dark lord. ;)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 04, 2014, 06:55:49 pm
I don't know.  I have been called names on this forum for many years.  Why close down now?  There might be a more complex reason we don't know.

I'm not a moderator, nor am I in touch with one, but I suspect that the degree of name calling and general insults had gotten to the point where Ray felt that something had to be done. As I said very early on when this happened, I had noticed it and was really reluctant to participate. I don't think I'm particularly thin skinned, but I find it difficult to have a meaningful exchange when my arguments are ignored and instead my intelligence (or more recently, my grip on reality) is attacked.

Nobody attacked your grip on reality, they just pointed out you made a statement which did not reflect the real world that they have experienced.  You are way way way too sentitive if you took a person's observation about their own world and twisted and turned it into an attack on you.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rain on June 05, 2014, 05:59:26 am
Ray - goood call on keeping the lock on.  At this rate maybe it's time to pull the plug and lock this thread too. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 05, 2014, 08:43:18 am
Yes we shouldn't be allowing civil discussion.  This is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rain on June 05, 2014, 10:32:37 am
Sarcasm noted. I am of the opinion that you'd be more tolerable and effective in delivering your opinions if you'd improve your communication skills.

Insofar as this thread, sometimes even topics with civil discussion run their course. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 05, 2014, 11:27:10 am
Nice Rain.  Appreciate communicating in an adult fashion with someone of intelligence.  Sarcasm is an effect adult method of communication.

I agree civil discussions can run their course and when they do, those involved in the discussion will go their own way of their own free will.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on June 05, 2014, 07:34:31 pm
" As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean."

Show me.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 05, 2014, 09:45:48 pm
" As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean."

Show me.

With this post, please understand how you contribute to "the nonsense."
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: RYou on June 06, 2014, 01:22:10 am
Nice Rain.  Appreciate communicating in an adult fashion with someone of intelligence.  Sarcasm is an effect adult method of communication.

I agree civil discussions can run their course and when they do, those involved in the discussion will go their own way of their own free will.

hint, hint, lock'er up ASAP.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 06, 2014, 09:27:05 am
Nice Rain.  Appreciate communicating in an adult fashion with someone of intelligence.  Sarcasm is an effect adult method of communication.

I agree civil discussions can run their course and when they do, those involved in the discussion will go their own way of their own free will.

hint, hint, lock'er up ASAP.

So Ryou, are you saying you need someone in authority to tell you how much of something you can partake of?  If we are all adults we will make the decision to move on of our own free will.  If we are not that mature, we need people in authority to tell us our limits.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 06, 2014, 09:45:07 am
" As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean."

Show me.

See Reply #108
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 06, 2014, 01:31:43 pm


hint, hint, lock'er up ASAP.

I agree. Everything that needs to be said, and more, has been said. The next post should by Ray's plan to move forward.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ctc on June 06, 2014, 06:28:31 pm


hint, hint, lock'er up ASAP.

I agree. Everything that needs to be said, and more, has been said. The next post should by Ray's plan to move forward.
Wrong again.  It is - "would you like to invest in prime real estate property in Arizona.  The salt mist air in very healthy.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on June 07, 2014, 02:12:08 pm


hint, hint, lock'er up ASAP.

I agree. Everything that needs to be said, and more, has been said. The next post should by Ray's plan to move forward.

“A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week.” George S Patton   :)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 07, 2014, 03:01:40 pm


hint, hint, lock'er up ASAP.

I agree. Everything that needs to be said, and more, has been said. The next post should by Ray's plan to move forward.

“A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week.” George S Patton   :)

Let them eat cake!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on June 07, 2014, 05:45:31 pm
" As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean."

Show me.

With this post, please understand how you contribute to "the nonsense."

How so?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rockhard on June 07, 2014, 05:53:03 pm
" As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean."

Show me.

With this post, please understand how you contribute to "the nonsense."

How so?

Don't bother. Sometimes people have to make up stories to make themselves feel better. This is one of those times.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on June 07, 2014, 05:58:29 pm
" As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean."

Show me.

See Reply #108

The post of yours that I quoted was simply a rewording of your #108. My response is the same:

Show me.



Discussing what exactly is a personal attack might be instructive. Hammering a written opinion, on here, IS NOT the same as attacking that opinion's author. I have seen some have trouble making that distinction.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 07, 2014, 06:34:54 pm
" As has been pointed out.  I do not know a single poster who is completely clean."

Show me.

See Reply #108

The post of yours that I quoted was simply a rewording of your #108. My response is the same:

Show me.



Discussing what exactly is a personal attack might be instructive. Hammering a written opinion, on here, IS NOT the same as attacking that opinion's author. I have seen some have trouble making that distinction.

Pick any poster you want and search idiot, stupid, vortex, NAZI, fascist, mindless or just about any slur you want and you will fin at lest one and probably many more instance.  I am not going to take the time to do it for you.  It is a fact regardless whether you are willing to admit it or not.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: lkwdsteve on June 08, 2014, 05:29:05 pm
"Pick any poster you want and search idiot, stupid, vortex, NAZI, fascist, mindless or just about any slur you want and you will fin at lest one and probably many more instance.  I am not going to take the time to do it for you.  It is a fact regardless whether you are willing to admit it or not."

Since the above comment reads like an attempt to duck out on a challenge to a sweeping generalization.....
 
We'll make it simpler. Much simpler. Find one instance where LkwdSteve hurled a slur at any other individual poster's head. If you can, I'll acknowledge it. But keep in mind criticizing an opinion IS NOT the same thing as criticizing the opinion's author.

I can think of a couple of instances where an author of an opinion was angered enough by MY opinion of THEIR opinion, that they took it personally. They accused me of attacking THEM, and promptly, amazingly enough (or maybe not so amazingly),  pinned labels on me personally in return (ie-buffoon, leftist, arrogant, etc.).

This is the crux of message board dynamics. Opinions must be fair game, whereas the authors of those opinions should not be.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 08, 2014, 08:45:50 pm
"Pick any poster you want and search idiot, stupid, vortex, NAZI, fascist, mindless or just about any slur you want and you will fin at lest one and probably many more instance.  I am not going to take the time to do it for you.  It is a fact regardless whether you are willing to admit it or not."

Since the above comment reads like an attempt to duck out on a challenge to a sweeping generalization.....
 
We'll make it simpler. Much simpler. Find one instance where LkwdSteve hurled a slur at any other individual poster's head. If you can, I'll acknowledge it. But keep in mind criticizing an opinion IS NOT the same thing as criticizing the opinion's author.

I can think of a couple of instances where an author of an opinion was angered enough by MY opinion of THEIR opinion, that they took it personally. They accused me of attacking THEM, and promptly, amazingly enough (or maybe not so amazingly),  pinned labels on me personally in return (ie-buffoon, leftist, arrogant, etc.).

This is the crux of message board dynamics. Opinions must be fair game, whereas the authors of those opinions should not be.

I haven't looked but if you believe you never hev good for you.  I can show instances of almost every other poster havering done so.  Maybe you and one or two others are saints.  I doubt icy but it is possible.  Congrats st. Steve. :)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 09, 2014, 10:44:20 am
"Pick any poster you want and search idiot, stupid, vortex, NAZI, fascist, mindless or just about any slur you want and you will fin at lest one and probably many more instance.  I am not going to take the time to do it for you.  It is a fact regardless whether you are willing to admit it or not."

Since the above comment reads like an attempt to duck out on a challenge to a sweeping generalization.....
 
We'll make it simpler. Much simpler. Find one instance where LkwdSteve hurled a slur at any other individual poster's head. If you can, I'll acknowledge it. But keep in mind criticizing an opinion IS NOT the same thing as criticizing the opinion's author.

Steve,

I looked it up and those words are not found in any of your posts for the last 9999 days.  Except where you quoted it. Good job.   You picked yourself and you are clean.  So the challenge is debunked. 

I declare lkwdsteve clean. 

mspart

Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on June 09, 2014, 11:53:00 am
I don't think I've used any of those words, although I will admit to calling one poster a "braying jackass" after he ticked me off by calling me a liar.  Childish, I know, but I had reached my "Popeye point", where I had all I could stands and couldn't stands no more.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 09, 2014, 01:23:29 pm
I don't think I've used any of those words, although I will admit to calling one poster a "braying jackass" after he ticked me off by calling me a liar.  Childish, I know, but I had reached my "Popeye point", where I had all I could stands and couldn't stands no more.

Bob H,

I myself have tried to not say stuff like that but must admit I have done so. 

You however are quite clean.   

I found one instance where you insisted that Ban Basketball could not be "that stupid" during the Gore/Bush discussion regarding counting votes.  I would not count this because you are insisting that he is not that stupid.  Kind of the reverse of an attack, a compliment of sorts. 

You also once stated, "I'm not going to get sucked further down the mindless vortex that is Sparky".  This was used as a descriptor of the kind of conversation one will have with Sparky.  I'm sure he feels that it was an attack, but I'm not sure many others would see it that way as it is a description of behavior, not a personal attack on his character.  I will have to say this is an iffy situation, could go either way. 

Other than that, clean.  Way cleaner than I am I'm sure. 

mspart

PS:   No, this does not mean I'm the board historian.  I just don't remember Steve and Bob acting this way.  So I was interested.  For the one or two that may possibly be counted to Bob as I found, there are some posters here that would dwarf that by the new Godzilla sized proportions. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 09, 2014, 01:30:54 pm
Many will be surprised to learn this, but I also have not used attacking words, and, just like our squeaky clean posters, if I did do it it was ONLY when such words were directed at me first; I replied in kind.

Thank you very much.  8)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 09, 2014, 01:44:07 pm
I found one instance where you insisted that Ban Basketball could not be "that stupid" during the Gore/Bush discussion regarding counting votes.  I would not count this because you are insisting that he is not that stupid.  Kind of the reverse of an attack, a compliment of sorts. 

Translation:  you're stupid, but you're not THAT stupid, are you?

Trust me:  it has NO other implication than that.  It is NOT a compliment, for God's sake.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on June 09, 2014, 01:47:08 pm
I don't think I've used any of those words, although I will admit to calling one poster a "braying jackass" after he ticked me off by calling me a liar.  Childish, I know, but I had reached my "Popeye point", where I had all I could stands and couldn't stands no more.

Bob H,

I myself have tried to not say stuff like that but must admit I have done so. 

You however are quite clean.   

I found one instance where you insisted that Ban Basketball could not be "that stupid" during the Gore/Bush discussion regarding counting votes.  I would not count this because you are insisting that he is not that stupid.  Kind of the reverse of an attack, a compliment of sorts. 

You also once stated, "I'm not going to get sucked further down the mindless vortex that is Sparky".  This was used as a descriptor of the kind of conversation one will have with Sparky.  I'm sure he feels that it was an attack, but I'm not sure many others would see it that way as it is a description of behavior, not a personal attack on his character.  I will have to say this is an iffy situation, could go either way. 

Other than that, clean.  Way cleaner than I am I'm sure. 

mspart

PS:   No, this does not mean I'm the board historian.  I just don't remember Steve and Bob acting this way.  So I was interested.  For the one or two that may possibly be counted to Bob as I found, there are some posters here that would dwarf that by the new Godzilla sized proportions.

I vaguely recall saying that to ban in response to him saying the same thing to me.  Sort of a "tit for tat" response.  As he says today in this thread, he rarely, if ever, uses attack words and I seriously doubt that he is one of the contributors who brought about the shutdown.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 09, 2014, 01:50:16 pm
I don't think I've used any of those words, although I will admit to calling one poster a "braying jackass" after he ticked me off by calling me a liar.  Childish, I know, but I had reached my "Popeye point", where I had all I could stands and couldn't stands no more.

Bob H,

I myself have tried to not say stuff like that but must admit I have done so. 

You however are quite clean.   

I found one instance where you insisted that Ban Basketball could not be "that stupid" during the Gore/Bush discussion regarding counting votes.  I would not count this because you are insisting that he is not that stupid.  Kind of the reverse of an attack, a compliment of sorts. 

You also once stated, "I'm not going to get sucked further down the mindless vortex that is Sparky".  This was used as a descriptor of the kind of conversation one will have with Sparky.  I'm sure he feels that it was an attack, but I'm not sure many others would see it that way as it is a description of behavior, not a personal attack on his character.  I will have to say this is an iffy situation, could go either way. 

Other than that, clean.  Way cleaner than I am I'm sure. 

mspart

PS:   No, this does not mean I'm the board historian.  I just don't remember Steve and Bob acting this way.  So I was interested.  For the one or two that may possibly be counted to Bob as I found, there are some posters here that would dwarf that by the new Godzilla sized proportions.

I vaguely recall saying that to ban in response to him saying the same thing to me.  Sort of a "tit for tat" response.  As he says today in this thread, he rarely, if ever, uses attack words and I seriously doubt that he is one of the contributors who brought about the shutdown.

I've said since the shutdown that I was likely a contributor (people don't like how I held their feet to the fire and wouldn't fall for their "Irish jokes" childness), but it was NOT because of attacking words.  As I said, I don't do that unless they are brought to me first.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Bob H. on June 09, 2014, 02:30:50 pm
I don't think I've used any of those words, although I will admit to calling one poster a "braying jackass" after he ticked me off by calling me a liar.  Childish, I know, but I had reached my "Popeye point", where I had all I could stands and couldn't stands no more.

Bob H,

I myself have tried to not say stuff like that but must admit I have done so. 

You however are quite clean.   

I found one instance where you insisted that Ban Basketball could not be "that stupid" during the Gore/Bush discussion regarding counting votes.  I would not count this because you are insisting that he is not that stupid.  Kind of the reverse of an attack, a compliment of sorts. 

You also once stated, "I'm not going to get sucked further down the mindless vortex that is Sparky".  This was used as a descriptor of the kind of conversation one will have with Sparky.  I'm sure he feels that it was an attack, but I'm not sure many others would see it that way as it is a description of behavior, not a personal attack on his character.  I will have to say this is an iffy situation, could go either way. 

Other than that, clean.  Way cleaner than I am I'm sure. 

mspart

PS:   No, this does not mean I'm the board historian.  I just don't remember Steve and Bob acting this way.  So I was interested.  For the one or two that may possibly be counted to Bob as I found, there are some posters here that would dwarf that by the new Godzilla sized proportions.

I vaguely recall saying that to ban in response to him saying the same thing to me.  Sort of a "tit for tat" response.  As he says today in this thread, he rarely, if ever, uses attack words and I seriously doubt that he is one of the contributors who brought about the shutdown.

I double-checked the thread and I must have been thinking of a different thread (and possibly a different poster).  Ban did not initiate the "not that stupid" remark.  That was solely my frustration speaking.

I apologize, ban.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rockhard on June 09, 2014, 03:04:10 pm
I'm trying to remember when vortex became a curse word.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 03:05:06 pm
I do want to repeat that if in fact since we all moved from thematic to here Steve has no made any attacks congrats on some major restrain.  However that most certainly does not debunk the assertion that the vast, vast majority cannot make that claim and without ability to check posts on the mat we will never be able to clear Steve entirely.

And one more thing there cannot be any doubt that calling me a mindless vortex is without any doubt a clear name calling attack regardless of what ms wants to try to claim justifies the attack.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 03:08:00 pm
I'm trying to remember when vortex became a curse word.

When it was used to attack a certain poster rather than address his argument. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 09, 2014, 03:30:28 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rockhard on June 09, 2014, 04:07:58 pm
Nope I just looked up the definition. Vortex isn't a curse word.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 04:13:38 pm
Nope I just looked up the definition. Vortex isn't a curse word.

Correctamudo.  Can you point to an instance where anyone said it was a curse word?  I bet you cannot.  Stood, idiot, numbskull, retard. And a whole slew of other attacks are not curse words either.  But all of them can be used as attacks and name calling and have been on this forum.  That is a fact.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 04:17:58 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

 And yet it has been essentially civil with only minor infractions.  Pretty amazing really.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 09, 2014, 04:19:33 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

 And yet it has been essentially civil with only minor infractions.  Pretty amazing really.

Yeah, and discussions that degrade to "he started it" and "she's looking at me" are so much better.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 04:41:09 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

 And yet it has been essentially civil with only minor infractions.  Pretty amazing really.

Yeah, and discussions that degrade to "he started it" and "she's looking at me" are so much better.

And who has been doing that not me?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 04:44:29 pm
And even if some are doing that, it does not have the negative impact that Ray etal were targetting by locking the poltics board.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 09, 2014, 04:45:59 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

 And yet it has been essentially civil with only minor infractions.  Pretty amazing really.

Yeah, and discussions that degrade to "he started it" and "she's looking at me" are so much better.

And who has been doing that not me?

Perhaps it's your alter ego then.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 04:48:56 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

 And yet it has been essentially civil with only minor infractions.  Pretty amazing really.

Yeah, and discussions that degrade to "he started it" and "she's looking at me" are so much better.

And who has been doing that not me?

Perhaps it's your alter ego then.

Nice try Mets but you cannot find one post I made that did either of those things.  Quit slinging mud unless you can back you passive agressive attacks with facts.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 09, 2014, 04:55:37 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

 And yet it has been essentially civil with only minor infractions.  Pretty amazing really.

Yeah, and discussions that degrade to "he started it" and "she's looking at me" are so much better.

And who has been doing that not me?

Perhaps it's your alter ego then.

Nice try Mets but you cannot find one post I made that did either of those things.  Quit slinging mud unless you can back you passive agressive attacks with facts.

That's Mr. Fan to you.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 04:58:30 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

 And yet it has been essentially civil with only minor infractions.  Pretty amazing really.

Yeah, and discussions that degrade to "he started it" and "she's looking at me" are so much better.

And who has been doing that not me?

Perhaps it's your alter ego then.

Nice try Mets but you cannot find one post I made that did either of those things.  Quit slinging mud unless you can back you passive agressive attacks with facts.

That's Mr. Fan to you.

Actually I think your initial MF are better. 8)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on June 09, 2014, 05:52:41 pm
I am officially hijacking this thread!  Who is going to win the NBA title even though I really couldn't care less!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 09, 2014, 06:06:00 pm
I am officially hijacking this thread!  Who is going to win the NBA title even though I really couldn't care less!

The Sonics?

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rockhard on June 09, 2014, 06:09:52 pm
Nope I just looked up the definition. Vortex isn't a curse word.

Correctamudo.  Can you point to an instance where anyone said it was a curse word?  I bet you cannot.  Stood, idiot, numbskull, retard. And a whole slew of other attacks are not curse words either.  But all of them can be used as attacks and name calling and have been on this forum.  That is a fact.

So if they aren't curse words, then we should be able to use them to describe people.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 09, 2014, 06:20:48 pm
The Knickerbockers?

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: heelpick on June 09, 2014, 06:29:09 pm
Probably Miami, but I cannot stand Lebron James.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Kingk0ng on June 09, 2014, 07:09:48 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

I gotta say I got a good laugh out of this thread and seeing the idiocy posted by sparkles and ban, reminds me exactly why I quit posting here.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: spider on June 09, 2014, 07:44:46 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

"I'm not touching you. I'm still not touching you."
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 09, 2014, 09:26:51 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

I gotta say I got a good laugh out of this thread and seeing the idiocy posted by sparkles and ban, reminds me exactly why I quit posting here.

KIng Kong,

Come back.  Godzilla is not here.  Seriously, I hope you come back.

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 09, 2014, 09:32:17 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

"I'm not touching you. I'm still not touching you."

Yeah but you're still looking at him.   Stop it.   Stop it!!!   Mooooooooooooooom!  He's looking at me!!!!!

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 09:42:40 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

I gotta say I got a good laugh out of this thread and seeing the idiocy posted by sparkles and ban, reminds me exactly why I quit posting here.

And you prove that you are a big part of the problem with your name calling attack post.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 09, 2014, 09:45:05 pm
Nope I just looked up the definition. Vortex isn't a curse word.

Correctamudo.  Can you point to an instance where anyone said it was a curse word?  I bet you cannot.  Stood, idiot, numbskull, retard. And a whole slew of other attacks are not curse words either.  But all of them can be used as attacks and name calling and have been on this forum.  That is a fact.

So if they aren't curse words, then we should be able to use them to describe people.

It never had anything to do with curse words.  It was named calling and personal attacks.  Go back and read Rays intro.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Jason Bryant on June 09, 2014, 09:48:37 pm
When can we start talking about the incessant whining? Everytime I see a reported post in my inbox, I cringe. While I might have "moderator" attached to my profile here, I've only deleted one thread (my own due to a factual inaccuracy with a wrestling stat. I have deleted a few of my own posts, but very few). I personally don't feel there's any benefit to politics or religion boards on a wrestling site. They were gone at TheMat before I arrived (thankfully) and all this back and forth childishness brings out the worst in people -- at times, myself included.

This thread basically shows why we have a problem. I have no problem at all locking up those boards and throwing away the key. Why? It's not to curtail freedom of speech or expression, rather it's just a waste of time for those of us on this site for WRESTLING. I'm not really a fan of the open boards either, which is why you'll see such a very small percentage of my overall posts there.

I say good riddance, but it's not my call and my opinion doesn't represent those of Ray and V. They started this community and the boards are more or less theirs to decide. I just work here.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 09, 2014, 11:06:20 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

I gotta say I got a good laugh out of this thread and seeing the idiocy posted by sparkles and ban, reminds me exactly why I quit posting here.

Me?  In this thread?  I guess I'd like to know where and what you mean.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 10, 2014, 06:14:20 am
When can we start talking about the incessant whining? Everytime I see a reported post in my inbox, I cringe. While I might have "moderator" attached to my profile here, I've only deleted one thread (my own due to a factual inaccuracy with a wrestling stat. I have deleted a few of my own posts, but very few). I personally don't feel there's any benefit to politics or religion boards on a wrestling site. They were gone at TheMat before I arrived (thankfully) and all this back and forth childishness brings out the worst in people -- at times, myself included.

This thread basically shows why we have a problem. I have no problem at all locking up those boards and throwing away the key. Why? It's not to curtail freedom of speech or expression, rather it's just a waste of time for those of us on this site for WRESTLING. I'm not really a fan of the open boards either, which is why you'll see such a very small percentage of my overall posts there.

I say good riddance, but it's not my call and my opinion doesn't represent those of Ray and V. They started this community and the boards are more or less theirs to decide. I just work here.

I am not sure where you see anybody whining.  I certainly have not made any request to have those boards reinstated.  As to seeing reported post, ray and V made there decision to lock those threads because of personal attacks, if people Cannot stay away from personal attacks after that, give them time outs or ban them.  That is the appropriate thing to do.  As for me, I will continue to support Ray and V's vision by reporting the personal attacks when they occur.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on June 10, 2014, 12:12:13 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

I gotta say I got a good laugh out of this thread and seeing the idiocy posted by sparkles and ban, reminds me exactly why I quit posting here.

KOOOONG!!!


Where ya been brother????

Dont be such a stranger!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 10, 2014, 02:09:38 pm
This thread is starting to feel like listening to the kids in the back of minivan.  Waiting for Ray to chime in with, "Don't make me pull this thing over!"

I gotta say I got a good laugh out of this thread and seeing the idiocy posted by sparkles and ban, reminds me exactly why I quit posting here.

KOOOONG!!!


Where ya been brother????

Dont be such a stranger!

Indeed.  We could definitely use your input here:

http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,31438.0.html (http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,31438.0.html)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: AKIN on June 10, 2014, 02:57:02 pm
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Jason Bryant on June 10, 2014, 04:52:23 pm

 As for me, I will continue to support Ray and V's vision by reporting the personal attacks when they occur, except when they are my own.

FIFY.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rockhard on June 10, 2014, 08:53:02 pm
Lmao.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 11, 2014, 12:35:27 am
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.

Was reply #43 "idiotic" in this thread, or was it "rambling?"

http://forum.theopenmat.com/index.php/topic,31532.msg436386/boardseen.html#new
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 11, 2014, 06:23:46 am
Oops, correction for the above..."ranting," not rambling.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 10:29:01 am

 As for me, I will continue to support Ray and V's vision by reporting the personal attacks when they occur, except when they are my own.

FIFY.

Jason, I challenge you to find one where I did any such thing since the boards were locked.  The only such one is the boarderline one that furh pointed out about saying ctc can be dense sometimes.  I still disagree with that being a personal attack, but ok, some people are extremely sensitive. 

Good luck, I will be waiting.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 11:02:44 am
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.

Personal attack noted.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Jason Bryant on June 11, 2014, 11:17:23 am
... "since the boards were locked."

Convenient time frame. I guess you expect people to ignore years of your own personal attacks and name-calling all the while talking down to people as if they're inferior because you carry some opinion that's superior.

Not going to get sucked in. I didn't make the forum decision, but from where I sit, your actions and posts and name-calling are a direct result in the deterioration of the boards in question.

Maybe we can get you to talk wrestling once again. As I recall, I do remember a time where your input on wrestling topics was relevant and insightful.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 11:23:42 am
... "since the boards were locked."

Convenient time frame. I guess you expect people to ignore years of your own personal attacks and name-calling all the while talking down to people as if they're inferior because you carry some opinion that's superior.

Not going to get sucked in. I didn't make the forum decision, but from where I sit, your actions and posts and name-calling are a direct result in the deterioration of the boards in question.

Maybe we can get you to talk wrestling once again. As I recall, I do remember a time where your input on wrestling topics was relevant and insightful.

So you admit that you did not fix it for me since my comment was only about recent events very good.  I accept the retraction.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 11:37:48 am
Jason,

I get the sense you would like to see me retroactively banned for past bad behavior.  If that is what V and Ray decide so be it.  As for getting involved in wrestling discussions, I hope to be more involved this year now that I am back in the states and can follow things.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on June 11, 2014, 11:52:03 am
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT54pSSEh471Kqcz5uatPCaCbb14GeK8qCiTJQgu0uZkg7RlxE5)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 11:55:35 am
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT54pSSEh471Kqcz5uatPCaCbb14GeK8qCiTJQgu0uZkg7RlxE5)

Happy birthday bryce.  Hope it is a good one. 8)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on June 11, 2014, 12:11:42 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0eIDO4M6NRmCF-pipn8wmvrvBICbYQRJlbGJzZi0YmPr7kEo_VA)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 11, 2014, 12:17:06 pm
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.

Personal attack noted.

Against whom?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Rockhard on June 11, 2014, 12:28:38 pm
Lol I'm gonna tell mommy.

That's the attitude of a few now. Frickin hilarious.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: mspart on June 11, 2014, 02:54:48 pm
Lol I'm gonna tell mommy.

Please don't.  Not that!!!

mspart
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 03:42:00 pm
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.

Personal attack noted.

Against whom?

Against "rantings of a few idiots."  I know who he means and I bet you do to. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 03:42:37 pm
Lol I'm gonna tell mommy.

That's the attitude of a few now. Frickin hilarious.

Personal attack noted.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 03:44:14 pm
Lol I'm gonna tell mommy.

That's the attitude of a few now. Frickin hilarious.

Just trying to help the moderators clean up the forum.  Wish they would follow through and get rid of the people who continue to violate their rules.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on June 11, 2014, 03:52:38 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2fkzbTXJ4DDpDc3JajJIp2iBkKv1ePPLP2s-zzgj9-IiVIppV)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 04:00:05 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2fkzbTXJ4DDpDc3JajJIp2iBkKv1ePPLP2s-zzgj9-IiVIppV)

Obsessed with Birthday cakes I see.  That one really doesn't look good at all, but if that is to each their own.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 11, 2014, 04:03:50 pm
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.

Personal attack noted.

Against whom?

Against "rantings of a few idiots."  I know who he means and I bet you do to.

So, you're inferring a personal attack based on your own thought process.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 04:05:23 pm
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.

Personal attack noted.

Against whom?

Against "rantings of a few idiots."  I know who he means and I bet you do to.

So, you're inferring a personal attack based on your own thought process.

No, calling people idiots is a personal attack as noted by Ray.  And you know damn well as does everyone else who he is refering to.  Do not pretend not to know, that would be dishonest.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on June 11, 2014, 04:08:00 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHtdWxEcVrAQScfVq0YhbCO5Qva09_ay2EJxM8a_5gcicdZPuH)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on June 11, 2014, 04:10:26 pm
Why do you keep calling me Bry?
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 04:10:32 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHtdWxEcVrAQScfVq0YhbCO5Qva09_ay2EJxM8a_5gcicdZPuH)

Your tastes in cakes is questionable bryce.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on June 11, 2014, 04:11:26 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQD8kJtrmPf8zukXjW4GOmAKn7FaK0E6qhF75Ens9UyGKh3xVdRPg)

HE HAS BEEN SUMMONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 04:12:42 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQD8kJtrmPf8zukXjW4GOmAKn7FaK0E6qhF75Ens9UyGKh3xVdRPg)

HE HAS BEEN SUMMONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now blueberries is a step up. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on June 11, 2014, 04:15:28 pm
I am the CAKEMAN!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on June 11, 2014, 04:16:50 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZV2wm1F_dBVOtwuXxKU_BxPQTa7LUB-537TXOkvJyvu2Gxe3M)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on June 11, 2014, 04:19:47 pm
Dake also likes cake.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 11, 2014, 04:50:45 pm
The nice thing about today is this:  the quality and "civility," whatever that term means, of today's discussions are EXACTLY what we've all been striving for.

I've personally never seen it as congenial as it is today!
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: brycemus on June 11, 2014, 04:57:20 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6Sm_xZEd75VzBiWBO9C_-ur9kL8zM0bkADTlHE0tF5GsDQyzj1g)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Hardcore on June 11, 2014, 05:00:55 pm
The first Law of Cake: It can neither be created or destroyed. It can only be consumed.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ViseGrip on June 11, 2014, 05:43:28 pm
(http://www.gristmill.biz/images/animals/sharkAttack.jpg)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Jason Bryant on June 11, 2014, 06:21:46 pm
Lol I'm gonna tell mommy.

That's the attitude of a few now. Frickin hilarious.

Personal attack noted.

Not a personal attack. Observations of ones behavior would not constitute a personal attack in my book. You're actually not helping. You know spamming our inbox with reported posts is doing the opposite of what you intend. You're taking time away from our work to babysit. You're adults, act like it

Rock played the report button game on themat.com a few years ago. Amusing looking back on it now, but your attempt at trying to clean up the board is bothersome, annoying and counterproductive.

One solution to prevent personal attacks against yourself would be to stop responding.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 11, 2014, 06:52:55 pm
Rock played the report button game on themat.com a few years ago. Amusing looking back on it now

My nomination for understatement of the year.

As Rock would say, LMAO!   
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 07:27:59 pm
Lol I'm gonna tell mommy.

That's the attitude of a few now. Frickin hilarious.

Personal attack noted.

Not a personal attack. Observations of ones behavior would not constitute a personal attack in my book. You're actually not helping. You know spamming our inbox with reported posts is doing the opposite of what you intend. You're taking time away from our work to babysit. You're adults, act like it

Rock played the report button game on themat.com a few years ago. Amusing looking back on it now, but your attempt at trying to clean up the board is bothersome, annoying and counterproductive.

One solution to prevent personal attacks against yourself would be to stop responding.

It is a personal attack to call doing what we have been asked to do, report personal attacks in a negative connotation of "I'm gonna tell momma."  It is impossible to deny.  And doing what we have been asked to do, which is not do personal attacks but report them when they occur is doing the right thing.  It may be bothersome but under the guidelines that have been laid out here I have no choice.  If I fire back at the bullshit coming from the likes of akin and rock, I will be very shortlived on here. 
Now on the other hand I could turn around and start returning the attacks but I have shown an extraordinary ammount of restraint from that.  Of course I know you will refuse to admit it because of course I am who I am and we all know you do not like me because of my liberal rationalist, secular stances.

The only solution to ending the personal attacks against me is for moderators to have the courage to do their jobs, but I will not hold my breath. 
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Jason Bryant on June 11, 2014, 07:59:29 pm
You're like the guy who starts the fire and wants praise when you attempt to put it out.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: ban basketball on June 11, 2014, 08:04:10 pm
Like it or lump it, but there isn't one thing that sparky said in the above that isn't right.

If there's doubt that, just picture if sparky or I were the ones saying these things to others.  There'd be warnings, temporary bans, possible permanent bans, and an entire board of parrots sqwawking about how sparky and I have "destroyed this pristine place singlehandedly."   ;)
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: coachsparky on June 11, 2014, 09:21:54 pm
You're like the guy who starts the fire and wants praise when you attempt to put it out.

Nice try but not clos.  I knew you would not be able to man up to the truth.  I have never denied my part in escalating thing.  But just like last time V and Ray tried to crack down,  I am following the letter of the law.  unfortunately just like last time, attacks continue on me and not much is done(granted rock was given a well deserved timeout).  I on the other hand have continued to meet the requested civility guidelines.   I know that probably is to your chagrin as your dream world would see mee banned.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Jason Bryant on June 11, 2014, 09:49:19 pm
Pat yourself on the back for restraint when you've been the one who antagonized essentially everyone you've ever disagreed with? A zebra doesn't change his stripes.

You're the one who isn't manning up to the truth. Being a tattletale isn't manning up, especially to the extent you're doing it. And then questioning V and Ray about their "job" -- their job isn't to be your babysitter.

You start obeying the guidelines after your playground was closed. Oh, we should give you praise for this? Hardly. So all your past abuses should be just thrown away because the boards went on lockdown? You're not policing the board for anyone else's interest, just your own.

This thread just signifies the problem. Deflect blame with "Oh, I'm doing this now" ... childish behavior doesn't just get washed away because you've reported people taking shots at you. That's self-serving, not community serving.

I said it before and I'll say it again, because the shoe fits -- you're the guy who starts the fire and because you tried to put it out, you expect to be forgiven for starting the fire in the first place.

And with that, you're back on the ignore list. Where I should have left you to start with.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: MetsFan on June 11, 2014, 10:30:00 pm
And the insanity continues because of the rantings of a few idiots.

Personal attack noted.

Against whom?

Against "rantings of a few idiots."  I know who he means and I bet you do to.

So, you're inferring a personal attack based on your own thought process.

No, calling people idiots is a personal attack as noted by Ray.  And you know damn well as does everyone else who he is refering to.  Do not pretend not to know, that would be dishonest.

Personal attack noted.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on June 11, 2014, 10:57:58 pm
Last word.
Title: Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
Post by: Ray Brinzer on November 11, 2014, 02:23:20 pm
Politics >> General is now partially unlocked.  Users with 240+ posts can now read and post there; others cannot.