The Open Mat Forum

Miscellaneous => Polls => Topic started by: ViseGrip on September 19, 2014, 11:39:11 AM

Title: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on September 19, 2014, 11:39:11 AM
Some tough choices here.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: Intensity guru on September 19, 2014, 07:38:33 PM
What's dishonest about prostitution? You want a BJ. They're selling BJ's. You pay money and you get a BJ.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on September 19, 2014, 09:32:14 PM
What's dishonest about prostitution? You want a BJ. They're selling BJ's. You pay money and you get a BJ.
They got added for comparison purposes
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: MetsFan on September 19, 2014, 09:51:32 PM
What's dishonest about prostitution? You want a BJ. They're selling BJ's. You pay money and you get a BJ.

Sneaky ones give you a handy and make you think it's a BJ.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: lkwdsteve on September 20, 2014, 11:05:53 PM


1. bankers
2. religious teachers

other professions have pockets of dishonesty ie-salesmen, insurers, etc.



Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on September 21, 2014, 12:21:26 PM
What's dishonest about prostitution? You want a BJ. They're selling BJ's. You pay money and you get a BJ.

Sneaky ones give you a handy and make you think it's a BJ.

You shouldnt be drinking so much.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: mspart on September 22, 2014, 10:18:47 AM


1. bankers
2. religious teachers

other professions have pockets of dishonesty ie-salesmen, insurers, etc.

For that matter, all professions have pockets of dishonesty.  That really wasn't the question.

mspart
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: lkwdsteve on September 22, 2014, 06:56:08 PM


1. bankers
2. religious teachers

other professions have pockets of dishonesty ie-salesmen, insurers, etc.

For that matter, all professions have pockets of dishonesty.  That really wasn't the question.

mspart

And  salesmen and insurers, who I considered briefly for top 4, wasn't really my answer to the question.

My answer was listed first:
1. BANKERS (or moneychangers/financiers).
2. religious teachers.

I think that was pretty clear.

I'm left to muse about why you went out of your way to complain about the structure of my response, which I thought was essentially straightforward.

Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on September 22, 2014, 10:07:55 PM


1. bankers
2. religious teachers

other professions have pockets of dishonesty ie-salesmen, insurers, etc.

For that matter, all professions have pockets of dishonesty.  That really wasn't the question.

mspart

And  salesmen and insurers, who I considered briefly for top 4, wasn't really my answer to the question.

My answer was listed first:
1. BANKERS (or moneychangers/financiers).
2. religious teachers.

I think that was pretty clear.

I'm left to muse about why you went out of your way to complain about the structure of my response, which I thought was essentially straightforward.

Im curious.... how are "money changers" dishonest. And given there is no proof there is no God how are religious teachers dishonest?
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: lkwdsteve on September 22, 2014, 11:36:01 PM
Keep in mind that measuring dishonesty would happen in a continuum. As I, and then mspart alluded to, there will be "pockets" in all professions.

"I'm curious.... how are "money changers" dishonest."

I think that about 80 percent of what Wall Street does should be illegal. It's certainly unethical, thus philosophically unacceptable. That is my opinion. If you disagree, I will not convince you otherwise. Wall Street should be an open market to match folks, with money to invest, with businesses looking for funds. Let's take the simple example of betting on a business to fail. Given what, in my opinion, "should be", that is a dishonest act.

 "And given there is no proof there is no God how are religious teachers dishonest?"

Are you suggesting that, if God exists, there can be no dishonest religious teachers? That is what your question seems to imply.

That aside, what percent of wars have been fought on religious grounds throughout history even up to current times? How many state-sponsored or community-sponsored murders within various societies have happened, with religion as the reason? Are not most (almost all?) religions supposed to be peaceful? Seems like a high degree of dishonesty has existed in teachings.


Again I don't expect to convince anyone here. Of the original poll list I believe that two of them (prostitution and journalism) have a higher degree of honesty then many others. But there are not perfect professions by any means.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on September 23, 2014, 03:09:17 PM
Sounds to me like your bytch is with capitalism as a whole.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: lkwdsteve on September 23, 2014, 05:49:14 PM
Sounds to me like your bytch is with capitalism as a whole.

Hmmm. Assumes facts not in evidence, and ignores some that are.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: lkwdsteve on September 23, 2014, 05:58:33 PM
There is one profession that seems by definition to be dishonest, and that is the intelligence business. At first glance I figured just the lowest level (spies) were the dishonest ones, but upon reflection, I realized that the next level up (case officers) often practiced dishonesty in their recruitment. Further the main office of spy services have hardly been known for transparency to the public or other parts of government even to those parts charged with their  oversight.

Maybe too obvious, but probably this is the most dishonest of the professions.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: lkwdsteve on September 23, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
And yes, intelligence services are a necessity, here and elsewhere. The tricky part is monitoring them.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ocianain on September 23, 2014, 06:55:17 PM
It could be argued the four choices are really distinctions without a difference.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: RYou on September 23, 2014, 09:19:49 PM
Prostitution - nothing dishonest here, it's an upfront profession.  I trust the lady before any of the other 3.

Politics - for dishonesty.....politicians probably beat out teh bankers, but not by much.  bankers pay fines, politicians go to jail

Legal - not many lawyers are dihonest, unless they are politicians.  A bunch of skeeves, but lets face, not generally not dishonest.

Journalism - in total, not much dishonesty here, but if you retitle to news media, then yea, may well exceed politicians.  I'd trust a used car salesman before a newspaper writer.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on October 06, 2014, 11:08:37 AM
Prostitution - nothing dishonest here, it's an upfront profession.  I trust the lady before any of the other 3.

Politics - for dishonesty.....politicians probably beat out teh bankers, but not by much.  bankers pay fines, politicians go to jail

Legal - not many lawyers are dihonest, unless they are politicians.  A bunch of skeeves, but lets face, not generally not dishonest.

Journalism - in total, not much dishonesty here, but if you retitle to news media, then yea, may well exceed politicians.  I'd trust a used car salesman before a newspaper writer.
I agree with you on prostitution.  Truth be known, probably one of the most honest professions around (I only included them to make a point here). Likewise on bankers, they have specific rules that they must follow or they go to jail.  Lawyers too have a long list rules to follow or they get disbarred. People sometimes forget they are paid advocates, thus they are not bound by any concepts of fairness of impartiality.

That leaves politicians and journalists. At least we can vote out politicians and if they break the law they can also be disbarred (in most cases) or even thrown in jail. But they have no duty to impartiality nor is any expected of them. Which brings us to journalists. Their rules of conduct (http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp) arent even rules but mere suggestions thus hold less weight than the paper they are printed on. So not only can they lie and fabricate, they have a Constitutional amendment that shelters them when they do so. That's ok and should be supported, but its their pious self righteous facade of impartiality that makes them utterly and inherently dishonest to the core.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: buck on October 13, 2014, 09:43:33 AM
You guys have obviously never frequented prostitutes.  My experience is they'll steal anything not nailed down and lie about anything at anytime.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on October 13, 2014, 10:55:57 AM
You guys have obviously never frequented prostitutes.  My experience is they'll steal anything not nailed down and lie about anything at anytime.

I'll have to take your word for it buck..... but it still doesnt change our votes.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: Hardcore on October 13, 2014, 03:35:38 PM
You get what you pay for Buck.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: brycemus on October 13, 2014, 04:14:05 PM
you're picking up the wrong ladies of night.  frankly the good ones, you don't pick up.  they deliver
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: mspart on October 17, 2014, 10:24:40 AM
I say journalism.  They like to say they are impartial but they are far from it in many cases.  Politics is just all slimy so there is no credible expectation of sincerity. 

mspart
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on October 21, 2014, 10:48:31 PM
I say journalism.  They like to say they are impartial but they are far from it in many cases.  Politics is just all slimy so there is no credible expectation of sincerity. 

mspart

This is exactly right
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: sp103 on October 22, 2014, 01:39:29 PM
Isn't being a lawyer kind of like an unofficial internship to become a politician?
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: mspart on October 22, 2014, 02:33:43 PM
Isn't being a lawyer kind of like an unofficial internship to become a politician?

It seems so. 

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_US_congress_members_are_lawyers

According to the Congressional Research Service 170 members of the House and 60 Senators are lawyers.

Out of a total of 435 U.S. Representatives and 100 Senators (535 total in Congress), lawyers comprise the biggest voting block of one type, making up 43% of Congress. Sixty percent of the U.S. Senate is lawyers.
Enough said. 37.2% of the House of Representatives are lawyers.

There are 81 Republican lawyers in Congress who list "lawyer" as their profession. There are 123 Democrat lawyers in Congress that list "lawyer" as their profession. Some may have not told that they had a law degree or practiced law, because they were doing something else, e.g., doctor, industrialist, teacher, real estate agent/broker, etc. It seems that the medical and real estate professions are also heavily represented in Congress

mspart
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on October 27, 2014, 10:50:05 AM
http://nypost.com/2014/10/25/former-cbs-reporter-explains-how-the-liberal-media-protects-obama/
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: heelpick on October 27, 2014, 03:53:18 PM
I would go with politician.  Neither side really cares about the constituents. It is all about power currying favors and then taking lucrative lobbyist jobs if and when they leave office.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: mspart on October 27, 2014, 04:17:18 PM
I am sure this is ultimately true for many politicians on the national level.  Perhaps even the state level. 

mspart
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on October 27, 2014, 05:46:11 PM
I would go with politician.  Neither side really cares about the constituents. It is all about power currying favors and then taking lucrative lobbyist jobs if and when they leave office.

This is all very true and truth be known we probably have no idea as to the depth and pervasiveness of the bribes, kickbacks and overall corruption of politicians. But few people have illusions that politicians arent mostly corrupt and dishonest. And not only are there legal authorities that they have to worry about but also other politicians (and to a more partisan degree journalists).  So when they do get caught there are usually significant consequences.

Not so with journalists. Libel laws are a joke and partisanship is tacitly encouraged by management and colleagues.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: lkwdsteve on October 27, 2014, 06:35:19 PM
Broadcasters, news "analysts", columnists, and editorial boards members ARE NOT real journalists. But, alas, my defense of journalism looks lame (even to me).

I've always said that effective journalism is what stands between us and the abyss. But, times change.

The intelligence business is the most dishonest, at least externally. And maybe internally also.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: TobusRex on November 24, 2014, 12:32:24 AM
Should put "talking head for Fox News" on your list Visegrip. Or better yet just simply "conservative talking head". Fox News has been found to tell the TRUTH only 18% of the time! Rush Limbaugh, another cultural hero for the rightwing, has been found to tell the WHOLE TRUTH only 7% of the time, and SOME TRUTH another 7% of the time. Frankly I don't know anybody from your list of 4 professions that lies as much as Fox News or Rush.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: TobusRex on November 24, 2014, 12:35:54 AM
Just curious....why do you have prostitution listed as a "dishonest profession"? Seems pretty straight up to me...you pay for her services, she renders them, bam....transaction complete. Unless you paid up front and found out later it was a Ladyboy or she raised the price after the fact I don't see anything "dishonest" about the act. Illegal certainly (at least in this country), but not dishonest.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: Intensity guru on November 24, 2014, 12:45:41 AM
I agree.

What's dishonest about prostitution? You want a BJ. They're selling BJ's. You pay money and you get a BJ.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on November 24, 2014, 11:22:15 AM
Prostitution was added for comparison purposes as it is an illegal profession.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: TobusRex on November 26, 2014, 09:41:08 AM
Since you won't put any of my suggestions on the list I'll go with politicians.
Title: Re: Worlds most dishonest profession
Post by: ViseGrip on November 26, 2014, 11:18:58 AM
BTW.... The NYTimes has just published the home address of Darren Wilson. Not even politicians have stooped this low.