The Open Mat Forum

Wrestling => International => Topic started by: goStanford18 on February 11, 2020, 04:33:35 PM

Title: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: goStanford18 on February 11, 2020, 04:33:35 PM
Source: the man himself

https://youtu.be/QvDfT-Vfl1g


Interesting. Snyder leaves for the NLWC. Cox joins the Ohio RTC and goes up to 97kg.


Has the US ever had a grander bout? This has to be one of the most anticipated match ups of all time. We’ve seen it before, but that was before either were multiple time World Champs. IMO, this is bigger than JB vs. Dake.


Snyder: 3x NCAA Champ, 2x World Champ, 2016 Olympic Champ, 1 World Silver, 1 World Bronze

Cox: 3x NCAA Champ, 2x World Champ, 2x World Bronze


At least one of these guys will not be representing the red, white, and blue in Tokyo. Who do y’all got?
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: Jerry Callo on February 11, 2020, 04:55:26 PM
It seems to me we should have both Cox and Snyder in Tokyo wearing USA singlets.  Is there any chance Snyder goes up to 125KG?  I cannot see either Cox or Snyder beating the Russian at 97 but I also do not see either Gwiz or Gable or any other HWT being Snyder. 
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: goStanford18 on February 11, 2020, 05:09:40 PM
How much does Snyder walk around at? I can't imagine he's more than 235lbs. I'm not sure if I'd take Snyder over Gwiz and Gable right now. I would definitely not take him over Akgul or Petriashvili. Those guys have about a half a foot and 40 pounds on Snyder.

Just to see the clear size difference (a two min go between Snyder and Akgul): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GRoXp-880s

Akgul dwarfs Snyder. I believe one of Gable, Parris, or Kerkvliet are the future of Heavyweight. Snyder just doesn't have the size.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: Jerry Callo on February 11, 2020, 06:10:54 PM
I just think he is such a better wrestler he would be the best US representative at 125 - I admit I do not know much about the competition from other countries - but it does not seem that our 125 guys have been world beaters anyway.

Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: goStanford18 on February 11, 2020, 07:17:40 PM
I admit I do not know much about the competition from other countries - but it does not seem that our 125 guys have been world beaters anyway.

Akgul and Petriashvili both took Bronze in 2013. Since then, either one of them has won Gold at every World championship (Akgul from '14-'16; Petriashvili from '17-'19). Both are around 6'5 and a full 275 lbs. They are the top of the class and are built like tanks. If you watch the sparring sessions between Snyder and Akgul (taken in 2018), I think it is apparent Snyder does not have much for Akgul. He's simply just too big and strong. Snyder wears himself out much faster and his speed advantage is negated by the length and strength of Akgul. However, Akgul is almost 30 now, so he is probably near the end of his run. On the other hand, Petriashvili is still just 25 and is the defending 3x World Champ--he is in the middle of his prime and is the guy to beat.


Gwiz took Bronze in '17 and '18, but I do not think he will be our representative for much longer (perhaps he will be dethroned this year). Steveson is just 19 and is likely the guy going forward. He is extremely athletic, but his build is similar to Gwiz (about 6', 260~). Parris and Kerkvliet are very elite prospects that are also 20 or under. Both are not built like your typical American heavyweight. I think they are a couple years away from competing with the elite of the world though (both need to add some size), but they should be good tests for Steveson. FWIW, Steveson and Parris are both Junior World Champs at 125kg.


Parris vs. Iran in last year's Junior World Final: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZi28y_ZSiw   







Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: Jerry Callo on February 12, 2020, 11:35:31 AM
It was my understanding, limited though it is when it comes to international wrestling, that the 97 KG Russian is more dominating at that weight (other than the one time Snyder beat him) than anyone at 125 kg.  Is that the case?

My thought was knowing how good Snyder was - that he would be able to make the team at 125 but that he is an underdog at 97 anyway. 

Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: mspart on February 12, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
That video is pretty good.  Definitely Akgul horsed Snyder.  No doubt about it.  Snyder stays at 97kg and goes to Tokyo.  Cox could surprise but I don't think so. 

mspart
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: Cougar1 on February 12, 2020, 02:29:21 PM
That video is pretty good.  Definitely Akgul horsed Snyder.  No doubt about it.  Snyder stays at 97kg and goes to Tokyo.  Cox could surprise but I don't think so. 

mspart
Not so sure I’d be surprised. Should be a great matchup.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: RYou on February 12, 2020, 03:22:24 PM
Cox was cutting heavily to get to 92.  At 97 he can beef up with 10 lbs of muscle without losing an ounce of speed.  I think his ranginess gives Snyder fits.

If there is line on the bout in Vegas, take Cox, he's still hungry.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: mspart on February 12, 2020, 04:51:52 PM
I still like Snyder over Cox, but you make some valid points.  It will be a barn burner of a best 2 of 3 I think. 

mspart
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: Cougar1 on February 12, 2020, 06:22:56 PM
I still like Snyder over Cox, but you make some valid points.  It will be a barn burner of a best 2 of 3 I think. 

mspart
Agreed. Should be really fun to watch!
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: mspart on February 13, 2020, 10:58:25 AM
So there will be a dethroning in that scenario.

86kg if Taylor is a full strength, he will be in Tokyo.

74kg is the question now.  Just like 97kg will be heavily watched so will this weight.  There will be a dethroning, either Dake or Burroughs.  If you were to look at history, Burroughs has been the man since 2011.  That's a long time to hold onto power.  Who else has done this besides Big Bruce?  Quite the run.  So is he getting old and Dake has caught up?  Dake is only 3 years younger so maybe there is more parity than one would believe.

I continue to believe Burroughs will be going to Tokyo.  But they have had close matches before and it would not surprise me if Dake wins out. 

mspart
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: ViseGrip on February 14, 2020, 07:49:22 PM
Our best team is Cox at 97 and Snyder at 125.

I think Dake takes Burroughs and Cox beats Snyder.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: buck on February 17, 2020, 09:08:40 AM
Has anyone spoken to the Lord? 
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: Jerry Callo on February 17, 2020, 06:03:35 PM
Our best team is Cox at 97 and Snyder at 125.

I think Dake takes Burroughs and Cox beats Snyder.

VG

I agree - and I said the very same thing on a different forum and I was royally lambasted.  The general consensus was that Gwiz and even Gable could be Snyder which I find someone what ludicrous.

Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: ViseGrip on February 18, 2020, 10:05:00 AM
Our best team is Cox at 97 and Snyder at 125.

I think Dake takes Burroughs and Cox beats Snyder.

VG

I agree - and I said the very same thing on a different forum and I was royally lambasted.  The general consensus was that Gwiz and even Gable could be Snyder which I find someone what ludicrous.

I think this issue needs to be decided before its too late for Snyder to move up, or Cox to go down.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: RYou on February 18, 2020, 07:10:42 PM
Which weights has the US qualified for so far ?  not much opportunity left
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: mspart on February 18, 2020, 11:38:39 PM
I believe 74 and 97.  We need to qualify the others.

mspart
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: RYou on February 19, 2020, 08:13:33 AM
So they have the Pan American qualifying next month in Ottawa. Note, Taylor will finally be back on the mat defending his 2019 title.  There's a last world qualifier out there but I cant find any details on it.

Entries
57 kg: Daton Fix (Stillwater, Okla./Titan Mercury WC)
65 kg: Zain Retherford (State College, Pa./Nittany Lion WC)
86 kg: David Taylor (State College, Pa./Nittany Lion WC)
125 kg: Nick Gwiazdowski (Raleigh, N.C./Titan Mercury WC/Wolfpack WC)

Greco better kick some butt, no weights have qualified as yet.

Entries
60 kg: Ildar Hafizov (Colorado Springs, Colo./Army WCAP)
67 kg: Ellis Coleman (Colorado Springs, Colo./Army WCAP)
77 kg: Pat Smith (Minneapolis, Minn./Minnesota Storm)
87 kg: Joe Rau (Chicago, Ill./Chicago RTC)
97 kg: G’Angelo Hancock (Colorado Springs, Colo./Sunkist Kids)
130 kg: Adam Coon (Ann Arbor, Mich./New York AC/Cliff Keen WC)
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: ViseGrip on February 19, 2020, 10:41:43 AM
So they have the Pan American qualifying next month in Ottawa. Note, Taylor will finally be back on the mat defending his 2019 title.  There's a last world qualifier out there but I cant find any details on it.

Entries
57 kg: Daton Fix (Stillwater, Okla./Titan Mercury WC)
65 kg: Zain Retherford (State College, Pa./Nittany Lion WC)
86 kg: David Taylor (State College, Pa./Nittany Lion WC)
125 kg: Nick Gwiazdowski (Raleigh, N.C./Titan Mercury WC/Wolfpack WC)

Greco better kick some butt, no weights have qualified as yet.

Entries
60 kg: Ildar Hafizov (Colorado Springs, Colo./Army WCAP)
67 kg: Ellis Coleman (Colorado Springs, Colo./Army WCAP)
77 kg: Pat Smith (Minneapolis, Minn./Minnesota Storm)
87 kg: Joe Rau (Chicago, Ill./Chicago RTC)
97 kg: G’Angelo Hancock (Colorado Springs, Colo./Sunkist Kids)
130 kg: Adam Coon (Ann Arbor, Mich./New York AC/Cliff Keen WC)


We just have to qualify the weight and not the wrestler riight?
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: Jerry Callo on February 19, 2020, 12:58:13 PM
So they have the Pan American qualifying next month in Ottawa. Note, Taylor will finally be back on the mat defending his 2019 title.  There's a last world qualifier out there but I cant find any details on it.

Entries
57 kg: Daton Fix (Stillwater, Okla./Titan Mercury WC)
65 kg: Zain Retherford (State College, Pa./Nittany Lion WC)
86 kg: David Taylor (State College, Pa./Nittany Lion WC)
125 kg: Nick Gwiazdowski (Raleigh, N.C./Titan Mercury WC/Wolfpack WC)

Greco better kick some butt, no weights have qualified as yet.

Entries
60 kg: Ildar Hafizov (Colorado Springs, Colo./Army WCAP)
67 kg: Ellis Coleman (Colorado Springs, Colo./Army WCAP)
77 kg: Pat Smith (Minneapolis, Minn./Minnesota Storm)
87 kg: Joe Rau (Chicago, Ill./Chicago RTC)
97 kg: G’Angelo Hancock (Colorado Springs, Colo./Sunkist Kids)
130 kg: Adam Coon (Ann Arbor, Mich./New York AC/Cliff Keen WC)

When there is a qualifier - is it winner take all? 
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: RYou on February 19, 2020, 08:19:15 PM

When there is a qualifier - is it winner take all?


Not sure what you mean winner take all.  It's not the WSOP Texas Holdem' Final Table.

Quote from: ViceGrip

We just have to qualify the weight and not the wrestler riight?


The winner of a qualifying tournament, gets the tournament gold medal, but qualifies the country for entry into that weight class.  It doesn't qualify the wrestler for the Olympics, just the country at that weight class.  Each country then decides which wrestler will represent the country in the Olympics.

For the Pan American qualifier, only Gold and Silver qualify for the country (2) for that weight class.  Bronze keeps you waving from the stands.

The US OlympicTrials determine which wrestler and alternate will represent the US in the Olympics at the weight classes that the US has qualified to participate in.  Right now the US has only qualified for two.in men's FS and 2 in women's FS
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: ViseGrip on February 20, 2020, 02:52:44 PM
Is the objective of the trials to select the best team or to provide a ranking ladder? There are good arguments for both.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: RYou on February 20, 2020, 05:51:08 PM
I would say put out the best team since he who wins goes.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: RYou on February 20, 2020, 10:14:13 PM
Here's that final Olympic Qualifying event

April 30 - May 03    Bulgaria • Sofia    World OG Qualifier    Olympic Qualifying Tournament
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: ViseGrip on February 21, 2020, 10:30:39 AM
I would say put out the best team since he who wins goes.

In dont think our best team will include Snyder as the alternative at 97kg.
Title: Re: J’Den Cox to 97kg
Post by: RYou on February 21, 2020, 07:32:33 PM
I would say put out the best team since he who wins goes.

In dont think our best team will include Snyder as the alternative at 97kg.

Maybe not, but there is no team medal in Olympic wrestling.  Fundamentally its an individuals sport.