The Open Mat Forum

Wrestling => Fantasy Wrestling => Topic started by: Viratas on December 01, 2009, 08:07:56 AM

Title: Question
Post by: Viratas on December 01, 2009, 08:07:56 AM
Is the Penn State Open

The Same as this weekends Nittany Lion Open
Title: Re: Question
Post by: AKIN on December 01, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
That's what I am assuming.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 03, 2009, 04:27:50 AM
No, they are two seperate tournies and only one counts, so make sure your guys are going to the right one  :D
Title: Re: Question
Post by: AKIN on December 03, 2009, 11:18:55 AM
Well I only show the Nittany Lion Open listed, so what is the "other" tournament?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: brycemus on December 03, 2009, 11:28:10 AM
so does the Penn St or the Nittany Open count?

also is it just me or do the Iowa starters get screwed when it comes to Tourney points.  The only tournament they have is Midlands.  Most of these east coast schools get to count three tournies.  Just saying it seems crappy.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 03, 2009, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: "brycemus"
so does the Penn St or the Nittany Open count?

also is it just me or do the Iowa starters get screwed when it comes to Tourney points.  The only tournament they have is Midlands.  Most of these east coast schools get to count three tournies.  Just saying it seems crappy.

crappy for Iowa homers that dont bother to pay attention to the rules when they draft.. sure :P
Title: Re: Question
Post by: brycemus on December 03, 2009, 02:36:46 PM
I think we have had the conversation before where you learned that this was my first attempt at a total NCAA league....but feel free to keep being a poser.

I think it's "crappy" to not reward guys who pick guys who wrestle quality competition
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Rockhard on December 03, 2009, 02:37:55 PM
Quote from: "brycemus"
I think we have had the conversation before where you learned that this was my first attempt at a total NCAA league....but feel free to keep being a poser.

I think it's "crappy" to not reward guys who pick guys who wrestle quality competition

Like NIACC?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: brycemus on December 03, 2009, 03:09:35 PM
yeah.

oh and any comers from the Big 12 or Big 10 or the Pac 10 or any other conference who wants to try and knock them off
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Rockhard on December 03, 2009, 05:09:02 PM
Quote from: "brycemus"
yeah.

oh and any comers from the Big 12 or Big 10 or the Pac 10 or any other conference who wants to try and knock them off

Like Iowa Lakes CC? Or how about UNC-Pembroke or SIU-E or Cornell College?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: AKIN on December 03, 2009, 05:18:06 PM
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "brycemus"
yeah.

oh and any comers from the Big 12 or Big 10 or the Pac 10 or any other conference who wants to try and knock them off

Like Iowa Lakes CC? Or how about UNC-Pembroke or SIU-E or Cornell College?

Just about every program schedule cupcakes at the beginning of the season.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Rockhard on December 03, 2009, 05:26:36 PM
Quote from: "AKIN"
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "brycemus"
yeah.

oh and any comers from the Big 12 or Big 10 or the Pac 10 or any other conference who wants to try and knock them off

Like Iowa Lakes CC? Or how about UNC-Pembroke or SIU-E or Cornell College?

Just about every program schedule cupcakes at the beginning of the season.

That's my point. Bryce was talking about Iowa's "tough" schedule and as far as I can tell, they've wrestled nothing but cupcakes this year. Nothing wrong with that, just not as tough as it seems.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nywrestler4life on December 03, 2009, 05:42:18 PM
I dont see why every match people wrestle can't count.  If 1 guy can do the scoring in its current state, 3 or 4 can easily do the other 30% that aren't counted.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Rockhard on December 03, 2009, 05:45:52 PM
Quote from: "nywrestler4life"
I dont see why every match people wrestle can't count.  If 1 guy can do the scoring in its current state, 3 or 4 can easily do the other 30% that aren't counted.

I think this is being considered for next year. With the ability to get all results now from basically every tournament, this shouldn't be an issue, IMO.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 03, 2009, 06:19:08 PM
It is not the scoring that is an issue, its the level of competition.

I am not going to give ness 24 points just because he pinned some D3 kids at the Bison open.  You guys MIGHT be able to persuade me to not score non-D1 duals if there is enough of a consensus, but there is no way we are scoring all tournaments.  That would make Bryce's Iowa guys even more shitty, and basically make B10/B12 guys worthless as draft picks
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nywrestler4life on December 03, 2009, 06:34:14 PM
Well if you win the conference week you get into the finals automatically right?  So maybe big 10 and 12 guys need to be weaker, since they get 16 points for winning conferences, in the second most important week of the season.  D3 guys count on the official records, so why shouldn't they count in fantasy?  Its just different strategy and less biased imo.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 03, 2009, 06:48:22 PM
Quote from: "nywrestler4life"
Well if you win the conference week you get into the finals automatically right?  So maybe big 10 and 12 guys need to be weaker, since they get 16 points for winning conferences, in the second most important week of the season.  D3 guys count on the official records, so why shouldn't they count in fantasy?  Its just different strategy and less biased imo.

We adjusted the conference values to give B10/B12 guys more points because they were not good enough as fantasy picks.  Consider a weight like 133 in the b10, where several guys finished higher at NCAAs then they did at their conference last year.  Then look at most of the ACC/Pac 10/WWC/EWL weights and half the time you can point to the champion during the pre-season.  Not to mention the fact that a #1 seed and champ in the B12's will only win 2 matches at most.  So last year that was 18 points, which a guy in the EIWA could score by taking 3rd.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Rockhard on December 03, 2009, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: "LoSt"
It is not the scoring that is an issue, its the level of competition.

I am not going to give ness 24 points just because he pinned some D3 kids at the Bison open.  You guys MIGHT be able to persuade me to not score non-D1 duals if there is enough of a consensus, but there is no way we are scoring all tournaments.  That would make Bryce's Iowa guys even more ----, and basically make B10/B12 guys worthless as draft picks

But yet, we score all duals, whether JC or not. It would make much more sense to me to score every event, versus not scoring non-D1 duals.

I saw we put it to a vote.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Cicero on December 03, 2009, 09:01:51 PM
Personally, I think all Opens should count, but matches against non-D1 competition shouldn't.  Even though that kills Metcalf's production so far this year.  I already feel like I sold my soul picking him (in two leagues no less!) the least he can do is make it worth it.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 04, 2009, 04:09:31 AM
Quote from: "Cicero"
Personally, I think all Opens should count, but matches against non-D1 competition shouldn't.  Even though that kills Metcalf's production so far this year.  I already feel like I sold my soul picking him (in two leagues no less!) the least he can do is make it worth it.

Then this becomes a logistical nightmare of figuring out which guys are from  D1 programs.  Did you know that Duquesne is a D1 school for wrestling?? I sure as hell didn't until the other day...

Changing the events we score is not something we are going to do mid-season, but we can definitely discuss it for next year.  However I really dont think that most of you understand the ramifications of what you are asking for.  Scrubby schools tend to go to scrub tournaments a lot more often then the big names do, and this would make them even more powerful.

Do you guys have any idea how insane Edinboros schedule would be if we counted the Edinboro open and the PSACS?

Eastern Michigan Open
Brockport Open
Sprawl N Brawl Duals
PSACs
vs Ohio State
Reno Tournament of champions
Southern Scuffle
Virginia duals
6x Duals
Edinboro Open
2x duals

That is LITERALLY twice the amount of matches that most b10 schools would get.  For the sake of a balanced league thats not a move I'm interested in making.  I've played with this setup for three years now (with refinements made from year-to-year) and it works absolutely great.

My advice?  Tough it out, figure out how to play, and then come talk to me at the end of the year.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Viratas on December 04, 2009, 07:58:55 AM
Quote from: "LoSt"
Quote from: "Cicero"
Personally, I think all Opens should count, but matches against non-D1 competition shouldn't.  Even though that kills Metcalf's production so far this year.  I already feel like I sold my soul picking him (in two leagues no less!) the least he can do is make it worth it.

Then this becomes a logistical nightmare of figuring out which guys are from  D1 programs.  Did you know that Duquesne is a D1 school for wrestling?? I sure as hell didn't until the other day...

Changing the events we score is not something we are going to do mid-season, but we can definitely discuss it for next year.  However I really dont think that most of you understand the ramifications of what you are asking for.  Scrubby schools tend to go to scrub tournaments a lot more often then the big names do, and this would make them even more powerful.

Do you guys have any idea how insane Edinboros schedule would be if we counted the Edinboro open and the PSACS?

Eastern Michigan Open
Brockport Open
Sprawl N Brawl Duals
PSACs
vs Ohio State
Reno Tournament of champions
Southern Scuffle
Virginia duals
6x Duals
Edinboro Open
2x duals

That is LITERALLY twice the amount of matches that most b10 schools would get.  For the sake of a balanced league thats not a move I'm interested in making.  I've played with this setup for three years now (with refinements made from year-to-year) and it works absolutely great.

My advice?  Tough it out, figure out how to play, and then come talk to me at the end of the year.

But we let IA wrestle a bunch or DIII schools? This is where your point (which is valid) makes no sense. We knew IA was wrestling none DI teams. But see that helped your team didnt it lost?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 04, 2009, 12:33:41 PM
lol? I have one Iowa guy who scored me like 20 points at that...

I dont see your point at all v.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Viratas on December 04, 2009, 12:42:18 PM
So have you have issue with the smaller schhols having weak schedules, but IA points can count when the schedule Juco and DII teams.

That makes zero sense to me.

IMO any match wrestled should count period.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 04, 2009, 12:55:44 PM
yeah... I dont have a great explanation for that.  Its just what feels right and what works well for fantasy.

If people dont want us to score non-d1 duals  next year that is something I'm willing to consider, for the sake of consistency.  However the more I think about it, the more I think I'm going to keep tourney scoring to selective tournies.

This puts a lot more strategy in the draft too and makes people actually *gasp* look things up if they want to do well, instead of pulling a Bryce and just drafting the highest ranked Iowa guy still on the board.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Viratas on December 04, 2009, 01:06:40 PM
I have no issue with the limit on the tourney, but then IMO Logic would say that you do not count non-DI duals. (next year of course)
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Rockhard on December 04, 2009, 04:24:41 PM
This should all be for next year, BTW.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 04, 2009, 06:17:57 PM
Yes, we will not be making any changes to the scoring system this year.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nywrestler4life on December 04, 2009, 08:37:57 PM
I agree with V, we should count open tournies against d1 competition before d3 and juco duals.  Even if it means *gasp* learning what teams actually wrestle d1.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 05, 2009, 01:47:53 PM
Quote from: "nywrestler4life"
I agree with V, we should count open tournies against d1 competition before d3 and juco duals.  Even if it means *gasp* learning what teams actually wrestle d1.

The logistics of that are simply not going to happen.  Its all matches in a given tourney or none, those are the only options.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: OkieSpladle on December 05, 2009, 04:02:18 PM
Quote from: "LoSt"
Quote from: "nywrestler4life"
I agree with V, we should count open tournies against d1 competition before d3 and juco duals.  Even if it means *gasp* learning what teams actually wrestle d1.

The logistics of that are simply not going to happen.  Its all matches in a given tourney or none, those are the only options.

Or someone else runs a league.  We could have more than one going at any given time.  Perhaps we could keep this one next year and run an experimental league where we test out things like scoring all matches.  If I'm available then, I'd be willing to run something like that.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 05, 2009, 04:32:21 PM
If someone wants to volunteer to start another test league and determine the d1 elligibility of every wrestler from every school in every tourney, be my guest.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Drooke on December 05, 2009, 09:41:58 PM
Yo lost, how many points is the OW at vegas worth?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: LoSt on December 05, 2009, 11:04:19 PM
I'm not sure, did we make that rule this year?  I want to say its either 5 or 0