Author Topic: Rule changes?  (Read 7784 times)

Offline AKIN

  • LXP
  • Moderator
  • Get a Job
  • *****
  • Posts: 16190
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 09:46:40 AM »
Ok, so how about we drop the bonus for the other conference tournaments to 10 for 1st and 6 for 2nd. I still don't think at this point the Big 12 should receive the same bonus as the Big 10. So if people think the Big 12 should have more than the other conferences, then we just drop their value.
If you want respect, be respectful.

crablegs

  • Guest
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 09:51:17 AM »
I don't the big 12 should be worth as much as the big 10. 

Offline AKIN

  • LXP
  • Moderator
  • Get a Job
  • *****
  • Posts: 16190
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 11:42:31 AM »
So would it be better to have 3 tiers of bonus for the conference tournaments?

Big 10  16-1st/ 12-2nd

Big 12  12-1st/ 8-2nd

All others 10-1st/ 6-2nd

All of this will most likely not be an issue in a season or two, as the Big 12 is on life support and has one foot in the grave.
If you want respect, be respectful.

Offline brycemus

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 32437
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2011, 11:55:18 AM »
the Big Ten Tournament has tougher competition fighting it out in the Semifinals and Finals.  there I said it.
Corey Clark: 2016-2017 Hawkeye Hammer

Offline AKIN

  • LXP
  • Moderator
  • Get a Job
  • *****
  • Posts: 16190
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2011, 11:57:35 AM »
That's a given, for the most part.
If you want respect, be respectful.

Offline TehGratest

  • State Champ
  • **
  • Posts: 209
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2011, 12:46:44 PM »
I don't the big 12 should be worth as much as the big 10.

Good, because it wouldn't be.  Big 10 wrestlers will wrestle more matches to earn the bonus.  Thus the point totals will be greater in the big 10.

Another thing to consider:

Think about Big 12 125 this year
Alan Waters
Jon Morrison
Ryak Finch
Jarrod Patterson

That's your bracket, don't know about the order but a VERY good wrestler will go 0-2 in their conference.  That simply wouldn't happen in any other conference.  I don't think 125 is the only example in the big 12 where this will happen.

This fact alone makes drafting Big 12 wrestlers an EXTREME risk.  You're very good wrestler could go 0-2 while some sub-par kid in the East Regional who was pinned by the 4th place big 12er gets 3 pins en route to a title over nobodies.

Drafting or not drafting wrestlers shouldn't come down to choosing who has the easier conference, rather the better wrestlers.  I would had to see someone qualify and waste a playoff spot by drafting mediocre wrestlers from horrible conferences. 

I think those of you against the bonus for big 12 aren't thinking of it with the quite perspective.

The equal bonus doesn't suggest that one conference is equal to the other.  Certainly the Big 10 will have more AA's and probably NC's this year.  The equal bonus makes up for the lack of matches that a wrestler has and makes drafting a big 12 wrestler not an extreme liability.

crablegs

  • Guest
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2011, 12:57:30 PM »
TG, I respect your opinion but I disagree.  The Big12 is simply not as deep and tough, and therefore the bonus should not be worth as much. 

You use 125, as an example which is fine.  That is a pretty tough weight in the big 12, but look at 141 for example and you only have 2 ranked wrestlers.  None of them higher than 10th. 

149 in the Big 12 you have Jamal Parks (4) and Matt Lester (18).  Should Parks really get the same bonus as Molinaro (1) who to win the tournament would have to beat or place above Lopouchanski (8), Grajales (9), Ness (10), Terrazas (12), Iowa Guy (13), and Schmitt (16). 

No way, no how should Big 12 bonus be as much as the big 10.  At many weights the EIWA will be much harder to win than the Big 12. 

Offline Cicero

  • Conference Champ
  • ***
  • Posts: 834
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2011, 01:46:16 PM »
I think if you lower the points scoreable at conference for the Big XII you have to lower the others too with the possible exception of the EIWA.  Otherwise the distortion of a big weak conference over the Big XII is too much. If not the max a Big XII wrestler can score at a conference tournament will barely be more than the minimum a champ from another conference can score.
"The kinds of moves Oliver can hit are well beyond the kinds of moves I have the wrestling knowledge to describe" - LoSt

Offline brycemus

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 32437
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2011, 02:05:34 PM »
what about waiting until conference to decide the basis of the bonus based on how difficult each weight class per tourney works out
Corey Clark: 2016-2017 Hawkeye Hammer

Offline TehGratest

  • State Champ
  • **
  • Posts: 209
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2011, 09:17:30 PM »
TG, I respect your opinion but I disagree.  The Big12 is simply not as deep and tough, and therefore the bonus should not be worth as much. 

You use 125, as an example which is fine.  That is a pretty tough weight in the big 12, but look at 141 for example and you only have 2 ranked wrestlers.  None of them higher than 10th. 

149 in the Big 12 you have Jamal Parks (4) and Matt Lester (18).  Should Parks really get the same bonus as Molinaro (1) who to win the tournament would have to beat or place above Lopouchanski (8), Grajales (9), Ness (10), Terrazas (12), Iowa Guy (13), and Schmitt (16). 

No way, no how should Big 12 bonus be as much as the big 10.  At many weights the EIWA will be much harder to win than the Big 12.

You're missing the point, which is probably why you disagree.

On that note, I digress.

Offline AKIN

  • LXP
  • Moderator
  • Get a Job
  • *****
  • Posts: 16190
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2011, 09:21:14 PM »
So do you have a good option?
If you want respect, be respectful.

Offline TehGratest

  • State Champ
  • **
  • Posts: 209
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2011, 07:21:15 AM »
So do you have a good option?

Leave it as is.  Same bonus for Big 10 and Big 12.  There was nothing wrong with the rule last year, and as was previously pointed out, not much has changed as far as how many matches will be wrestled at Big 12's. 

Big 10 champs will have a nice advantage over Big 12 by the extra match(es) they will get to wrestle. 

Again: This doesn't mean the Big 12 is as tough or "equal" to the Big 10.  Just like the EIWA isn't t the equal of the So Con.  But they do have equal point values in their conference tournament.

Offline AKIN

  • LXP
  • Moderator
  • Get a Job
  • *****
  • Posts: 16190
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2011, 10:28:22 AM »
Ok, I would like a consensus from everyone on this. What is the most fair option on bonus for the conference tournaments. I want this league to be as enjoyable that it can be for everyone involved, so I would like as much input as to how it should run as I can get. I think everyone is pretty much on board with everything other than the bonus issue.

I want input on the supplemental draft issue. How does the option of not dropping a wrestler from your roster for the first extra wrestler drafted sound? You would have to drop if you wanted to add more than that, but the first one would be an addition to your roster. Does that sound kosher?
If you want respect, be respectful.

crablegs

  • Guest
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2011, 10:44:23 AM »
Really, it doesn't matter to me how you do it Akin.  So I hope I'm not making things confusing.  Personally I think the Big12 is a far weaker conference than the Big 10.  So because of that I see no reason it should have the same reward for winning the tournament.  TG thinks that because it is a far weaker tournament that the bonus should be the same in order to prop up the scores of Big 12 wrestlers.  Either way, not really going to effect who I pick.  Only 1 guy can win a class anyway. 

Offline Cicero

  • Conference Champ
  • ***
  • Posts: 834
    • View Profile
Re: Rule changes?
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2011, 11:39:02 AM »
It isn't to prop it up because it is far weaker, but because there are fewer matches. If the Big XII absorbed the SoCon it would still be far weaker than the Big 10, but the need to account for the lack of matches wouldn't be there.  Being on par with the EIWA would be right.

I say leave the bonus the same.

I like the idea of being able to pick up a guy without dropping one.

"The kinds of moves Oliver can hit are well beyond the kinds of moves I have the wrestling knowledge to describe" - LoSt