Author Topic: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?  (Read 13257 times)

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2012, 01:58:14 PM »
I have plenty other things to think about. I think calling me small minded without any semblance of an idea of what I do, think or care about is equally small minded. I didn't say every issue which doesn't affect me is moot in my life, but this one is. it's not an issue that impacts me ... so I'm small minded because I direct thoughts, time and resources to issues which have greater impact directly on my life?

I don't have an opinion on everything nor do I have a stance on everything and that's my right

This is exactly why I don't talk politics, religion or anything of the like. The opportunity for people to judge you based on nothing else than a minor opinion is too great and has no legit sample size.

Bottom line on this tread is simple: Nike did something for gay rights. Great. Nike screwed wrestling. more relevant to what I'm interested in. Nike still sucks.

Don't put words in my mouth or try to make yourself look better than anyone else. it's childish and again, why I don't talk politics.

And I can't help but be offended at you assuming I don't care about others in need. That's pretty piss poor to say about someone when you have NO IDEA about what needy causes I contribute towards. Do you know?

No, you're not my accountant do you couldn't know what causes I donate thousands of dollars to annually

I think about others in need everyday. But you don't know that. So I'm not a pioneer for gay rights ... I guess that makes me a bad person because it's clear based on one opinion of mine that I dont care about others

Seriously jacked up man, seriously. Next time you say someone doesn't think of others, talk to their accountant or the volunteer coordinator at Feed My Starving Children ...

« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 02:04:31 PM by Jason Bryant »
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Offline fuhr

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2012, 03:03:12 PM »
I'm curious why VAis, is even posting on a wrestling message board.  What with all he could be doing for gay rights with his time instead of being here.  I'm guessing an afternoon spent canvassing a neighborhood would be time better spent for someone who is so obviously concerned with the rights of others. 



Since Jammen has told me twice to change my signature, I can only assume his wrestling knowledge is no longer something I can count on along with pizza and beer.

Offline vaisforlovers

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2012, 04:06:47 PM »
I have plenty other things to think about. I think calling me small minded without any semblance of an idea of what I do, think or care about is equally small minded. I didn't say every issue which doesn't affect me is moot in my life, but this one is. it's not an issue that impacts me ... so I'm small minded because I direct thoughts, time and resources to issues which have greater impact directly on my life?

I don't have an opinion on everything nor do I have a stance on everything and that's my right

This is exactly why I don't talk politics, religion or anything of the like. The opportunity for people to judge you based on nothing else than a minor opinion is too great and has no legit sample size.

Bottom line on this tread is simple: Nike did something for gay rights. Great. Nike screwed wrestling. more relevant to what I'm interested in. Nike still sucks.

Don't put words in my mouth or try to make yourself look better than anyone else. it's childish and again, why I don't talk politics.

And I can't help but be offended at you assuming I don't care about others in need. That's pretty piss poor to say about someone when you have NO IDEA about what needy causes I contribute towards. Do you know?

No, you're not my accountant do you couldn't know what causes I donate thousands of dollars to annually

I think about others in need everyday. But you don't know that. So I'm not a pioneer for gay rights ... I guess that makes me a bad person because it's clear based on one opinion of mine that I dont care about others

Seriously jacked up man, seriously. Next time you say someone doesn't think of others, talk to their accountant or the volunteer coordinator at Feed My Starving Children ...
You're the one who said "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care about it"  How am I supposed to know when you do and don't apply this logic? Your words lead me to believe you are only concerned with issues that directly affect you, it wasn't some baseless assumption.  If it is untrue of me, then perhaps you should be more thorough with your word choices. 
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Offline vaisforlovers

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2012, 04:08:18 PM »
I'm curious why VAis, is even posting on a wrestling message board.  What with all he could be doing for gay rights with his time instead of being here.  I'm guessing an afternoon spent canvassing a neighborhood would be time better spent for someone who is so obviously concerned with the rights of others.

Thanks for bringing so much wit and logic to the table.
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Offline fuhr

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2012, 04:15:54 PM »
I'm curious why VAis, is even posting on a wrestling message board.  What with all he could be doing for gay rights with his time instead of being here.  I'm guessing an afternoon spent canvassing a neighborhood would be time better spent for someone who is so obviously concerned with the rights of others.

Thanks for bringing so much wit and logic to the table.


I'm quite serious.  You are obviously so much better than JB because you care about this and every other cause in the world, I'm sure, that I'm curious how you have time to be on a message board on a Saturday afternoon when you could be out trying to fight for human rights for homosexuals. 
Since Jammen has told me twice to change my signature, I can only assume his wrestling knowledge is no longer something I can count on along with pizza and beer.

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2012, 04:50:11 PM »
I didn't realize my word choices needed to be clarified because this is about Nike, not gay rights as a whole. If I need to be clear about my words, then you need to be clear-minded enough to realize the context of the topic ... which was Nike and it's LGBT line vs what Nike does in relation to wrestling

I think I was pretty clear, but people trying to make an issue out of a non-issue are clearly reading into my comments too much. It doesn't affect me, so no, I am not someone who is going to champion this cause one way or the other.

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Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2012, 05:56:14 PM »
And since I can't edit my post for some reason, let me point out this comment.

"How am I supposed to know when you do and don't apply this logic?"

That's the entire problem. You don't know. See the problem this creates. You don't know. Making grand assumptions based on one statement on a partial tangent of a topic does not make you a viable judge of my life, opinions or beliefs or causes.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 05:57:50 PM by Jason Bryant »
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Offline vaisforlovers

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2012, 07:11:00 PM »
I think this has run it's course. 
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Offline Wire

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2012, 11:25:26 AM »
I think this has run it's course.

The following,  is about the most lucid commentary about the OU/Nike situation I've read.  I don't care for Nike product because of it's quality nor price points. Early on I was a Nike hater as well .... Yet, pull back the covers, and look at the whole story, and "we" let that wrestling team slip through the cracks, not Nike.

Nike sponsors Anthony Robles.

Feel any way you want about Nike. There’s lots to like and dislike. Like if you think they’re a crap product or exploit child labor, those would be legit beefs. But blaming them for the demise of the Oregon program, or of not loving wrestling enough are misguided and possibly counter-productive. They’re not a strong ally, but they’re certainly not an enemy of wrestling. Understanding this matters far less to Nike than it does for wrestling people, as wrestling is a minuscule part of Nike’s business, while misunderstanding the true market forces at play can only hamstring wrestling’s mission.

Likewise, I’m not much for defending billionaires, but I know for a fact that Phil had zero to do with dropping Oregon wrestling. That happened well below his radar.

Hey, I’m as furious about what happened at Oregon as anyone, and I’m tenacious about getting at the truth and fighting for what I believe. These guys would get no quarter from me. My interest is in the reinstatement of wrestling at Oregon and throughout the country. To that end, I think it’s critical that wrestling people have a accurate view of the landscape.

Below is a comprehensive answer I recently gave to a friend who asserted that Phil Knight could have saved Oregon wrestling:
Yeah, I think Phil could have stopped it, but he would have had to do something he claims he never does, and that’s dictate policy to the UO. (Well, one could argue that telling the UO he was done with them after they signed on with the WRC was dictating policy, except he didn’t initially tell them anything other than “I feel betrayed” and “goodbye.” He never told them to change anything. But if you believe he set precedent with the WRC, it was a precedent to defend his company.) The UO has asked his opinion about things from time to time. They ignored him over the hiring of Martin Smith–which was something he cared greatly about. Kilkenny and his Athletic Review Committee consisting of Renee Baumgartner, Joe Giansante, Jim Bartko and Mark Ruckwardt killed wrestling. Phil was told of the decision to reinstate baseball, add cheer and cut wrestling. I’m told his response was essentially, “Okay, but make it work.”

I’m bummed that Phil doesn’t care about wrestling. Considering he’s an Oregonian, alum, athlete, supporter of the Olympic movement, founder of a company whose first Olympic gold medal was won by a wrestler, I’m surprised and dismayed that he doesn’t care. He’s been lobbied by us and others closer, and he maintains that it’s not his place to step in. In principle, he’s right, it’s not his place.

I wish Phil cared more for wrestling, but wrestling people who are blaming him are essentially angry at him for being reluctant to coerce UO leadership to change a decision–something he’s constitutionally averse to doing–over an issue that he has no interest. They think he should wield his power differently.

They may as well blame Tim Boyle, too. Tim is a very wealthy UO alum who heads up Columbia Sportswear. Tim could step up for wrestling. He didn’t. He doesn’t have as much clout as Phil, but he has considerable clout. He may have made a difference, and could make a difference now. He’s not. I don’t know his reasons, but I suspect they’re much like Phil’s–it’s not his place and it’s not his interest.
If you want to blame Phil, have it at. If you want to blame Nike because Phil owns a bunch of it, go ahead, but you’re following a fallacious line of reasoning called guilt by association. If you just want to punish Phil by boycotting his company, I suppose that’s a way to go. Of course, he’ll never personally feel it.

Should the wrestling community reach out to Nike? Yes, they should, but they should do so on the merits of the sport. You shouldn’t hold Nike responsible for what others did or didn’t do. And as a tactic, strong-arming Nike is a guaranteed fail.

There are real things that the wrestling community can be doing to help the sport. Misdirecting their anger isn’t one of them.


And now we are haters, because they (Nike) supports a brand, that supports the Gay community.  I swear, sometimes we as wrestling fans, are our own worst enemy's.



« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 11:29:59 AM by Wire »
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Offline Rockhard

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2012, 12:40:08 PM »
Phil's wife and Renee Baumgartner are the major culprits behind the demise of wrestling, as well as a group of UO baseball alumni and Pat Kilkenny.

Phil's wife is a huge baseball fan that wanted the team to return, as did Kilkenny and were told to make it happen. Baumgartner, who has been heard saying the first chance she gets, wrestling will disappear. She was no fan of the sport and wanted it gone. She told Kilkenny the only way they could ring baseball back was by dropping wrestling. The baseball alumni, who I know personally, jumped at the opportunity and said they'd raise the money necessary to help bring it back and saying wrestling had their chance, had no fans or alumni base who cared. Kilkenny, a big baseball fan and overall piece of crap douchebag(family owns a ranch in my county and are douchebags too) made it go away by not knowing the facts and get a heavy push from alumni, Baumgartner and Phil's wife.

Furthermore it was OSUs sudden baseball success that drove this. If they hadn't been winning, UO simply wouldn't care. I know this as fact as I've been to the campus and seen the lack of support for their club baseball team that would beg for donations during football games and get passed over by the thousands.

However I still blame Nike and Phil. Why because he could've easily told his wife that the plan wasn't right, could've said make it happen but were not dropping sports or simply said he didn't like it. But didn't.

And for those who think Phil doesn't have any influence on UO policy, I have some real estate in the swamp to sell you.

Here are the people who Nike supports, people who make them money and get their product out to the public. Guys like Hudson Taylor and Anthony Robles are merely advertising tools. Nike could care less about their cause. If Nike cared about causes, they wouldn't still be having 8yr old kids making their crappy shoes and clothes in Indonesia. They use UO as their own marketing puppet. If the football team wasn't winning do you think they'd even care? Does the football team need horrible new uniforms every game?

Nike drives their policy everyday directly or indirectly.
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Offline vaisforlovers

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2012, 08:44:53 PM »
I think this has run it's course.

The following,  is about the most lucid commentary about the OU/Nike situation I've read.  I don't care for Nike product because of it's quality nor price points. Early on I was a Nike hater as well .... Yet, pull back the covers, and look at the whole story, and "we" let that wrestling team slip through the cracks, not Nike.

Nike sponsors Anthony Robles.

Feel any way you want about Nike. There’s lots to like and dislike. Like if you think they’re a crap product or exploit child labor, those would be legit beefs. But blaming them for the demise of the Oregon program, or of not loving wrestling enough are misguided and possibly counter-productive. They’re not a strong ally, but they’re certainly not an enemy of wrestling. Understanding this matters far less to Nike than it does for wrestling people, as wrestling is a minuscule part of Nike’s business, while misunderstanding the true market forces at play can only hamstring wrestling’s mission.

Likewise, I’m not much for defending billionaires, but I know for a fact that Phil had zero to do with dropping Oregon wrestling. That happened well below his radar.

Hey, I’m as furious about what happened at Oregon as anyone, and I’m tenacious about getting at the truth and fighting for what I believe. These guys would get no quarter from me. My interest is in the reinstatement of wrestling at Oregon and throughout the country. To that end, I think it’s critical that wrestling people have a accurate view of the landscape.

Below is a comprehensive answer I recently gave to a friend who asserted that Phil Knight could have saved Oregon wrestling:
Yeah, I think Phil could have stopped it, but he would have had to do something he claims he never does, and that’s dictate policy to the UO. (Well, one could argue that telling the UO he was done with them after they signed on with the WRC was dictating policy, except he didn’t initially tell them anything other than “I feel betrayed” and “goodbye.” He never told them to change anything. But if you believe he set precedent with the WRC, it was a precedent to defend his company.) The UO has asked his opinion about things from time to time. They ignored him over the hiring of Martin Smith–which was something he cared greatly about. Kilkenny and his Athletic Review Committee consisting of Renee Baumgartner, Joe Giansante, Jim Bartko and Mark Ruckwardt killed wrestling. Phil was told of the decision to reinstate baseball, add cheer and cut wrestling. I’m told his response was essentially, “Okay, but make it work.”

I’m bummed that Phil doesn’t care about wrestling. Considering he’s an Oregonian, alum, athlete, supporter of the Olympic movement, founder of a company whose first Olympic gold medal was won by a wrestler, I’m surprised and dismayed that he doesn’t care. He’s been lobbied by us and others closer, and he maintains that it’s not his place to step in. In principle, he’s right, it’s not his place.

I wish Phil cared more for wrestling, but wrestling people who are blaming him are essentially angry at him for being reluctant to coerce UO leadership to change a decision–something he’s constitutionally averse to doing–over an issue that he has no interest. They think he should wield his power differently.

They may as well blame Tim Boyle, too. Tim is a very wealthy UO alum who heads up Columbia Sportswear. Tim could step up for wrestling. He didn’t. He doesn’t have as much clout as Phil, but he has considerable clout. He may have made a difference, and could make a difference now. He’s not. I don’t know his reasons, but I suspect they’re much like Phil’s–it’s not his place and it’s not his interest.
If you want to blame Phil, have it at. If you want to blame Nike because Phil owns a bunch of it, go ahead, but you’re following a fallacious line of reasoning called guilt by association. If you just want to punish Phil by boycotting his company, I suppose that’s a way to go. Of course, he’ll never personally feel it.

Should the wrestling community reach out to Nike? Yes, they should, but they should do so on the merits of the sport. You shouldn’t hold Nike responsible for what others did or didn’t do. And as a tactic, strong-arming Nike is a guaranteed fail.

There are real things that the wrestling community can be doing to help the sport. Misdirecting their anger isn’t one of them.


And now we are haters, because they (Nike) supports a brand, that supports the Gay community.  I swear, sometimes we as wrestling fans, are our own worst enemy's.

Now we have to boycott Columbia too!?  I'm going to freeze!  If I find out that North Face cut wrestling too, I'm officially screwed.
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Offline wrestej

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2012, 08:07:42 AM »
You don't have to boycott anyone.  That's the great thing about making your own decisions.  I for one choose to boycott Nike because of what they did to the wrestling program at OU.

Offline brycemus

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2012, 09:54:00 AM »
Nike can suck it
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Offline Wire

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2012, 08:31:10 AM »
Nike can suck it

Very eloquent.....  And we wonder why Wrestling Fans are considered Neanderthals ... At 29 years of age, and 10.711 posts per day, one would think you could alt least build a complete sentence.

It's exactly, this kind of blind, misdirected hatred, that has hamstrung College Wrestling since Title 9 arrived on the scene. The University of Washington, and prior to that Washington State, buried their heads in the sand and did absolutely nothing to preserve the wrestling programs.  Totally off guard, with no preservation or funding plans, what so ever. 

It's ironic, that OSU, the ugly step child of OU .... Is still alive and well, and building a solid endowment  base of funds. They are not out of the woods as of yet, however they are getting closer and closer. 

It wasn't until the programs were flushed down the toilet, did we ever see any efforts to fund the programs at  UW and WSU. Granted we never thought the proportion prong would be the fall back position ... in the early days. OU had plenty of lead time to prepare...  YET did not.

The last figures we got from WSU was 13M, to fund both womens and mens wrestling, as they also need new facilities as well. And over at the UW, you can find absolutely no history nor indication, that Larry Owing ever wrestled there.

It's as if, wrestling never existed.

What is frustrating is ... We have so many Kazillionaires, Billionaires and Multi Millionaires in the NW, and not a single one of them is a former wrestler, nor avid wrestling fans.

A sugar daddy or two would sure be welcome.



   

« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 09:01:38 AM by Wire »
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Offline The Du

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Re: Time to Lift the Ban on Nike?
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2012, 08:52:07 AM »
yes, because message board posts define us  ::)

nike CAN suck it.

you wanna support them? fine.

i won't.

will it hurt their pocketbook? nope. but that's beside the point.

it's about principle.

i believe they could have done more to save Oregon wrestling,

and i believe they could have it re-instated today if they gave a sh!t .

but no, they'll just continue to sell wrestling gear and make money on the sport.

of course, you can feel free to disagree with all this.

it's my perspective and my choice to not buy their products.
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