Author Topic: Cadet Duals  (Read 7015 times)

Offline yomama cantrassle

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Cadet Duals
« on: June 13, 2012, 11:17:22 AM »
Greco Starting today, right? Not sure what the field looks like, but I know Ga has a couple of studs wrestling. I don't think they are a team to be reckoned with, but will have at least three guys that have a good tourney.

Does anyone have the skinny on the rest of the teams?

Offline drmuscle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 01:14:01 PM »
Not up on whose who, but I will have to say Florida as a venue is a failure. They can't keep the duals updated on track, haven't had crap for video. Wrestling fails its fans again.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:24:52 PM by drmuscle »
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Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 06:50:42 PM »
Don't feel like redoing my post, but here's my reply on the IL Matmen website about streaming for events.

http://illinoismatmen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44060

And just for argument's sake, is it mandatory wrestling provide free webcasts from every single event? No one streams more live wrestling than we do, but it seems like there's little appreciation for progress and development. So wrestling fails itself and gets a post when we don't do something, but when we do something right, I don't see anyone lauding the effort.

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Offline drmuscle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 08:12:34 PM »
They couldn't even update the brackets, and didn't use the dashboard on Track until the finals. This was the worst coverage I've seen at this level of competition in years. Our kids state tourney does a better job. I'm happy over all but today was a failure, but to be fair, I blame it on Fla. for trying to pull off something they weren't capable of.
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Offline drmuscle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 08:19:08 PM »
Also the reffing needs a ton of work in greco. Many of these states do not understand greco. 
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Offline The Du

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 08:52:21 PM »
one of the downfalls of trackwrestling is that it relies on the table workers to input data accurately and timely (although it's not that difficult)

99% of the time it's not a problem. but sometimes you get a collective group of volunteers that don't know what they're doing.

last winter at the hershey duals, they had all the college kids names jacked.
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Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 09:50:49 PM »
If you don't have the live clocks, you can't use the dashboard. The dashboard is only utilized if live clocks are being used. This obviously wasn't the case. It can only be the worst "coverage" in the last two years, since the live dashboard from trackwrestling is barely two years old.

Remember when you're dealing with trackwreslting, that's used to run the event. If they're not using live clocks, there's not going to be instant updates, it will be updated when the information is entered into the tournament software, just like any pre-track tournament.

I think you have to understand how things work to correctly gauge how good or bad an event is run. For all we know, the event ran smoothly, but the web updates weren't proficient. While I agree we all would love live updates, it's not the first responsibility of the event staff or the event itself. The first responsibility is to run the event and deal with the situations AT the event.

As far as volunteers, you get what you get. Your kids state tournament probably had a ton of apt volunteers. This is by far the the exception vs. the rule in the years I've been working, covering, setting up tournaments from the kids to the college levels.

All that being said, I think we tend to overstate "worst" in terms of coverage. There are plenty of tournaments I can think of THIS YEAR on the college and high school level which were far worse. The EWL tournament comes to mind immediately.

Again, the track dashboard is about two years old, so that's pretty much the window you have to use for "worst" coverage.
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Offline Rockhard

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 09:59:32 PM »
Whenever I'm at any tournament, if I know they aren't using some sort of bracket system that will post results, especially duals, I always ask for the printed brackets or dual bout sheets and I'll type them up afterwards. Not live but as a person who enjoys results, that's about the best we can do.

I see Docs and JBs side of things. However I feel if you're going to run a tournament of this level and can't use track for results, you better have some volunteers there who will type things up.

Our HS dual state never posted results until I offered to do it 6yrs ago. 16 teams for 5 classifications 4 pools first day, brackets 2nd day with consolation duals mixed in, equals way too many duals for one person to type.
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Offline drmuscle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 10:32:32 PM »
If you don't have the live clocks, you can't use the dashboard. The dashboard is only utilized if live clocks are being used. This obviously wasn't the case. It can only be the worst "coverage" in the last two years, since the live dashboard from trackwrestling is barely two years old.

Remember when you're dealing with trackwreslting, that's used to run the event. If they're not using live clocks, there's not going to be instant updates, it will be updated when the information is entered into the tournament software, just like any pre-track tournament.

I think you have to understand how things work to correctly gauge how good or bad an event is run. For all we know, the event ran smoothly, but the web updates weren't proficient. While I agree we all would love live updates, it's not the first responsibility of the event staff or the event itself. The first responsibility is to run the event and deal with the situations AT the event.

As far as volunteers, you get what you get. Your kids state tournament probably had a ton of apt volunteers. This is by far the the exception vs. the rule in the years I've been working, covering, setting up tournaments from the kids to the college levels.

All that being said, I think we tend to overstate "worst" in terms of coverage. There are plenty of tournaments I can think of THIS YEAR on the college and high school level which were far worse. The EWL tournament comes to mind immediately.

Again, the track dashboard is about two years old, so that's pretty much the window you have to use for "worst" coverage.

If you only consider not using the dash board then yes it was only the worst in 2 years. If you consider it took halfway through the next round to get last rounds results, the horrible officiating, the fact that some how the clocks showed up for the finals, scores were screwed up and never corrected, and the number of former states that didn't show, then you may start seeing the big picture. You may want to tell someone there that a greco tech is 4 points not 5 and a fall is 5 not 6.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 10:35:24 PM by drmuscle »
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Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2012, 12:20:56 AM »
Drmuscle,

From a tournament standpoint, if you're not updating live, those bout sheets do have to be entered manually, which isn't uncommon for track systems which aren't using live clocks. To me, that issue is minor and something rather common.

The other points you bring up all have merit.

The officiating ... that's always going to be an issue in our sport. We're not seeing an influx of new officials at the rates we once did. Few people want to do it. But that's another issue to discuss entirely, but while I'm not there and can't comment on the officiating, I can understand and relate to the frustration.
The clocks .... it's obvious the live clocks in some way, shape or form are in use, but if they're not live with manpower for the early rounds, that would make sense. Doesn't make ideal, but it showed they did get some people at the end of the day to help out, but there's always human error. Didn't seem like there was much time to train people on short time. Not an excuse, but just an assumption based on the buckets of tournaments I've seen with the live scoring. Kids in a lot of cases are better than some adults because of their overall computer literacy is sometimes notably better.
States not showing ... well, we've all got theories.

I went back and looked at the team scoring and I didn't see any scores incorrect (team scoring, not individual) -- meaning I saw techs as four and falls as five, but that doesn't mean they weren't incorrect early, it shows they've been corrected on the tournament set-up side of things, which is a complete relief to me.

There's a variety of issues it appears and I think you've brought up some valid concerns, but not all of them are interconnected. Some are, some aren't.

Your feedback is appreciated from where I sit. I'm just making sure any and all complaints are directed the right place.
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Offline drmuscle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 09:18:06 AM »
   Match Summary  PA B  MN 
88 Devin Schnupp (Pennsylvania Blue) over Victor Gliva (Minnesota) Dec 4-1,7-0 3.00 1
94 Paul Fitterer (Minnesota) over Luke Karam (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 1-0,2-0 0 3.00
100 Dylan Chatterton (Pennsylvania Blue) over Austin Anderly (Minnesota) TF 7-0,6-0 5.00 0
106 Mitchell McKee (Minnesota) over Hayden Hidlay (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 4-0,8-1 1 3.00
113 Blane Tschida (Minnesota) over Tyler Tarsi (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 1-0,3-2 1 3.00
120 Kent Lane (Pennsylvania Blue) over Maolu Woiwor (Minnesota) Dec 4-0,4-6,1-1 3.00 1
126 Cortlandt Schuyler (Pennsylvania Blue) over Quinten Berres (Minnesota) Dec 5-7,2-1,4-0 3.00 1
132 Seth Gross (Minnesota) over Richie Cerebe (Pennsylvania Blue) Pin 0-3,5-2,0:46 0 5.00
138 Josh Maruca (Pennsylvania Blue) over Mason Brownlee (Minnesota) 2-3,Inj  5.00 0
145 Mason Manville (Minnesota) over Chris Weiler (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 1-0,7-0 0 3.00
152 Dayton Racer (Minnesota) over Chad Reese (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 1-0,1-0 0 3.00
160 Lucas Westrich (Minnesota) over Noah Wilps (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 3-2,2-0 1 3.00
170 Terrell Fields (Pennsylvania Blue) over Luke Kelvington (Minnesota) Dec 3-6,5-1,2-0 3.00 1
182 Daniel Vitale (Minnesota) over Unknown (Unattached) Pin 0-1,1:45 0 5.00
195 Jovan Reyes (Pennsylvania Blue) over Wyatt Richardson (Minnesota) Pin 0:12 5.00 0
220 Adam Treptau (Minnesota) over Tyler Mears (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 2-0,3-1 1 3.00
285 Luis Pinto (Minnesota) over Jake Gunning (Pennsylvania Blue) Dec 2-0,2-0 0 3.00
Dual Meet Score 31.0 38.0

There were others that may have been corrected, but look at the 100 lb results.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:19:34 AM by drmuscle »
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Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 10:36:08 AM »
That bout has since been corrected.

Why wouldn't you want to inform someone first about the errors, that's what I'm wondering. I mean, if it weren't for this board, I wouldn't have been able to verify any errors pointed out. I'm probably the only USAW employee who reads this board, so if I wasn't reading this thread, what would have happened?

From a public service standpoint, I always think it's better to contact the source with an issue than post on a board and wait for a resolution.

the events page on USAW's schedule has contact info.

Do you want to celebrate the fact results are incorrect or would you rather help out by being part of a solution, rather than pointing out a problem?

Just a thought.
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Offline yomama cantrassle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2012, 11:01:33 AM »
Off work today and loving the live stream. I've seen some sweet throws.

Offline drmuscle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 11:17:53 AM »
That bout has since been corrected.

Why wouldn't you want to inform someone first about the errors, that's what I'm wondering. I mean, if it weren't for this board, I wouldn't have been able to verify any errors pointed out. I'm probably the only USAW employee who reads this board, so if I wasn't reading this thread, what would have happened?

From a public service standpoint, I always think it's better to contact the source with an issue than post on a board and wait for a resolution.

the events page on USAW's schedule has contact info.

Do you want to celebrate the fact results are incorrect or would you rather help out by being part of a solution, rather than pointing out a problem?

Just a thought.
I'm not there.
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Offline drmuscle

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Re: Cadet Duals
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2012, 11:20:15 AM »
Off work today and loving the live stream. I've seen some sweet throws.
what are you watching?
From professing themselves to be wise they became fools.