Author Topic: I'm just sayin'  (Read 18385 times)

Offline ctc

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2013, 07:01:52 pm »
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/01/23/potential-dna-for-storing-digital/


Your DNA can store information from a million CDs, researchers say

And just think, some believe that it all came about by mindless, accidental, undirected mishap.  What astonishing faith some people have!!!  I am impressed.



Several are on "ignore".   I won't argue with the ignorant and disrespectful..
 "People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive" ~ Blaise Pascal

Offline Jointdoc55

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2013, 10:25:39 am »
Well, I've never heard of that one. I wasn't trying to annoy anyone. I just thought it odd that Sparky said God was outside the sphere of science, yet used science as his argument against it.
That is a paradox isn't it. I do not try to use science to prove God, though I think good science will never be in conflict with the "reality" of God. Neither do I try to use the Bible to prove science, nor even to interpret it. As  scientist I appreciate it's limitations. Those who with to use science to disprove God are welcome to do so to their own satisfaction. No argument from me.

Offline coachsparky

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2013, 11:10:21 am »
Well, I've never heard of that one. I wasn't trying to annoy anyone. I just thought it odd that Sparky said God was outside the sphere of science, yet used science as his argument against it.

I did not nor have I ever used science as my argument against God.  I have lived in this world for 54 years and I know empirically that nothing exists outside of the Natural world.  How do I know this?  Like I said, by experience, that is the meaning of empirical.  As a result of this knowledge I know if a God does exist, It must be of Natural origin, and must exist within and be subject to all the Natural laws that you and I are subject to.  That pretty much leaves out any God either of the Hebrew or Christian Bibles or of the Quran or Book of Mormon.  Those Gods by definition are supernatural with as I have explained I have experience which proves that false.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2013, 11:14:19 am »
Well, I've never heard of that one. I wasn't trying to annoy anyone. I just thought it odd that Sparky said God was outside the sphere of science, yet used science as his argument against it.
That is a paradox isn't it. I do not try to use science to prove God, though I think good science will never be in conflict with the "reality" of God. Neither do I try to use the Bible to prove science, nor even to interpret it. As  scientist I appreciate it's limitations. Those who with to use science to disprove God are welcome to do so to their own satisfaction. No argument from me.

Again, I agree that science cannot prove or disprove a statement about anything supernatural.  As no evidence has or ever will exist of a supernatural realm, it takes a leap of faith to believe in a magical world to believe in a supernatural God.  I choose not to make that leap as I have never seen, nor will there ever be any evidence of a supernatural.  All that exists has perfectly natural explanations and to go into the supernatural world of magic to explain things only adds a layer of complexity unnecessary for every day living.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline head n arm

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2013, 03:12:40 pm »
Sparky, I appreciate the conversation without name calling and I hope it can continue. Another question for you. It's an honest question, because I've never really talked to an atheist before. I have many questions but I will start with this one.

Do you believe there was a time when there was absolutely nothing anywhere? Nothing.
"I'm actually worse at picking winners in wrestling than I am MMA, and that is saying something"

Offline coachsparky

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2013, 04:08:37 pm »
Sparky, I appreciate the conversation without name calling and I hope it can continue. Another question for you. It's an honest question, because I've never really talked to an atheist before. I have many questions but I will start with this one.

Do you believe there was a time when there was absolutely nothing anywhere? Nothing.

And the conversation without attacks can happen any and every time someone is willing to keep the conversation without attacks.  I never start it. 

To answer your question, no, there was never nor could there ever be a time when there was nothing.  I would violate the Laws of Nature which state that energy and matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only change form.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline SVV

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2013, 04:17:26 pm »
Sparky, I appreciate the conversation without name calling and I hope it can continue. Another question for you. It's an honest question, because I've never really talked to an atheist before. I have many questions but I will start with this one.

Do you believe there was a time when there was absolutely nothing anywhere? Nothing.

And the conversation without attacks can happen any and every time someone is willing to keep the conversation without attacks.  I never start it. 

To answer your question, no, there was (likely never, based on our understanding) never nor could there ever be a time when there was nothing.  I would violate the Laws of Nature which state that energy and matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only change form.

Would you agree that's a better way to say that?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 04:39:38 pm by SVV »

Offline head n arm

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2013, 04:24:41 pm »
Okay. So both atheist and Believers agree that there was always something there. That we both agree on.

Question 2- What do you believe was always there? Was it air, dust....I don't have any idea what you think (which is why I'm asking). Please try to answer in laymans terms. I am able to understand physics and chemistry, but it bores me and I'll be honest, I won't read it if it's too technical.
"I'm actually worse at picking winners in wrestling than I am MMA, and that is saying something"

Offline coachsparky

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2013, 11:47:18 am »
Sparky, I appreciate the conversation without name calling and I hope it can continue. Another question for you. It's an honest question, because I've never really talked to an atheist before. I have many questions but I will start with this one.

Do you believe there was a time when there was absolutely nothing anywhere? Nothing.

And the conversation without attacks can happen any and every time someone is willing to keep the conversation without attacks.  I never start it. 

To answer your question, no, there was (likely never, based on our understanding) never nor could there ever be a time when there was nothing.  I would violate the Laws of Nature which state that energy and matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only change form.

Would you agree that's a better way to say that?

I would not necessarily agree it is better it is definitely different and less certain which I do not agree with since we know the laws of Nature cannot be violated and that is one of the laws of Nature and if it can not be violated, it is a certainty so why not state it as a certainty.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2013, 11:49:27 am »
Okay. So both atheist and Believers agree that there was always something there. That we both agree on.

Question 2- What do you believe was always there? Was it air, dust....I don't have any idea what you think (which is why I'm asking). Please try to answer in laymans terms. I am able to understand physics and chemistry, but it bores me and I'll be honest, I won't read it if it's too technical.

It was energy/matter in one form or another.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline SVV

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2013, 12:14:30 pm »


Quote
I would not necessarily agree it is better it is definitely different and less certain which I do not agree with since we know the laws of Nature cannot be violated and that is one of the laws of Nature and if it can not be violated, it is a certainty so why not state it as a certainty.


To the best of our abilities it is what we understand it to be.  I prefer not to use absolutes in conversations like this since there is the slightest chance our understanding can change with new information.  We truly do not know all that is out there and something that operates outside of our understanding of science can possibly exist.  It's probably too much bending backwards to save face, but I feel it's the safest way to state it.

Offline Jointdoc55

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2013, 02:11:04 pm »


Quote
I would not necessarily agree it is better it is definitely different and less certain which I do not agree with since we know the laws of Nature cannot be violated and that is one of the laws of Nature and if it can not be violated, it is a certainty so why not state it as a certainty.


To the best of our abilities it is what we understand it to be.  I prefer not to use absolutes in conversations like this since there is the slightest chance our understanding can change with new information.  We truly do not know all that is out there and something that operates outside of our understanding of science can possibly exist.  It's probably too much bending backwards to save face, but I feel it's the safest way to state it.
I agree with you. I try to use that approach also. Not that I lack resolve in what I believe, but because the listener may well disagree. It is a better way to hold civil discourse in general. I started the conversation on this thread with a series of statements followed by, "...this I believe".

Offline SVV

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2013, 04:30:56 pm »
Well said.

Offline coachsparky

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2013, 09:55:55 pm »
So it would be better if I said, every single piece of evidence in the Universe supports the scientific fact that nothing exist outside of the Natural world.  This I believe.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline SVV

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Re: I'm just sayin'
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2013, 09:59:46 pm »
I'm just saying the universe is so vast and we are a mere speck of dust.  There is so much out there that we have yet to discover that the possibilty of our science changing is possible.