Poll

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?

YES
7 (24.1%)
NO
22 (75.9%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: May 09, 2009, 06:06:46 PM

Author Topic: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?  (Read 14131 times)

Offline ctc

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2009, 08:34:11 AM »
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
"Empty".  Be specific.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2009, 12:01:28 PM »
Quote from: "sgallan"
Yeah... you're right. There is NO media bias. Its just the rantings of that VRWC.

You mean like Fox (highest rated cable by far), and virtually all of talk radio? That bias? If all the Republican Party has is dumb stuff, and chasing off all except the "true believers", and making sure they lose the vast majority of people of race, then they will doubtlessly remain an ineffective "pup tent" regional party for a very long time. And that would suck. I rather hope they get this circular firing squad thing out of their system, and become a party of ideas, instead of the party of pettiness and whining.
No... I mean like NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, Newsweek, Time, NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, etc etc etc.

You point to what is maybe 10% of the media outlets and use that as justicication of your absurd contention that there is no overwhelming bias in the media. FYI here's one of them admitting it.


Love or lust, Obama and the fawning press need to get a room
When Barack Obama decided that questions from the German press about his trip agenda in that country were too pesky, he told the reporters, "So, stop it all of you!" He just wanted them to ask things he wanted to talk about. Well, what politico wouldn't want that?

OK, dad. We'll behave.

And according to a new Pew Research Center poll, we are behaving...like fans. On domestic press, it showed that "President Barack Obama has enjoyed substantially more positive media coverage than either Bill Clinton or George W. Bush during their first months in the White House" with "roughly twice as much" Obama coverage about his "personal or leadership qualities" than was the case for either previous president.

Back in the US, NBC's Brian Williams' two-part "Living Large With the Top Dog" feature on Mr. Obama's life included a plug for Conan O'Brien's new show and mention of cable talkies where Mr. Obama only cited MSNBC personalities. Accident? I don't think so. There were a few probing moments in there, but they were overshadowed by the flash of hanging out in the back of the Auto One limo and having burgers. A little navel-gazing among journalism standards hall monitors about whether the thing had been too soft came and went.


Then, this Sunday in the NYTimes, there was full-on chick-flick swooning over Barack and Michelle Obama's heavily scented "date night" in NY City and its high bar standard effect on our relationship culture, with just a hint of controversy over the taxpayer costs to add some spice. I swear I've seen this movie, only Michael Douglas was the President. Or Harrison Ford. Or one of those cool and languid characters you'd want to like you. George Bush needed to be beer-bar likable to get elected. His successor has managed to get a lot of people to want to be liked by him.

And in Paris, Mr. Obama talked about how he'd love to take his wife for a romantic tour of the City of Lovers, but couldn't. Then he did. I'm guessing some regular-Joe freedom fries weren't on the menu.

This guy is good. Really good. And, frankly, so far, we're not.

You can't blame powerful people for wanting to play the press to peddle self-perpetuating mythology. But you can blame the press, already suffocating under a massive pile of blame, guilt, heavy debt and sinking fortunes, for being played. Some of the time, it seems we're even enthusiastically jumping into the pond without even being pushed. Is there an actual limit to the number of instances you can be the cover of Newsweek?

If I wanted to see highly manicured image management I'd just take some No-Doz and read Gavin Newsom's tweets. But the Obama-press dance is a more consensual seduction where, in the old-fashioned sense, we're the girl. (In California, there's no other option.)

I thought that the Maxfield Parrish, heroic days of the Kennedy Administration PR, where the press and the president were pretty much all in on the same screenplay and the same jokes, couldn't happen in our modern era, what with paparazzi and tabloids and talk shows, citizen sound-bite scavengers and voracious 24/7 news cycles. But now that the stumbling Bushes and smirking Clintons are out of the White House, time has compressed back on itself like the machine in the Denzel Washington movie, "Deja Vu." It's the early 1960s and Camelot all over again:

Very attractive wife, cute, precocious kids and the hopes and dreams of at least 63 percent of the population sitting on the athletic shoulders of a young, charismatic, mold-breaking leader, Blah, blah. (Oh, and a Chicago Mayor Richard Daley helped make it possible. We can play the Lincoln-Kennedy parallels game here.) Only there's a puppy now instead of a pony and it seems like Barack Obama may be less socially, self-destructively libertine than Mr. Kennedy. In fact, he's downright conservative on things like same-sex marriage. (It's smart to have a wholesome life -- though very clearly, in the sinuous world of the Obamas, not to the point of abstinence -- when you're pushing programs that get labeled as socialist.)

So we're in love, lust, or just a whole lot of like. Clearly we get something in exchange, whether it's a little reflected exuberance, a sense of history or just some very minor role in a fun movie. If you want to appear in a movie with John Travolta, you go willingly with him to the LA Scientology Center and are happy about it. "I'm clear, man. Hand me the cans."

I'm not sure Mr. Obama is necessarily getting away with anything here. In Cairo, when he spoke of the "principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings," more than a few writers pointed out that this meant unless you're the Egyptian government or two gay people wanting to get married. What the President was saying overseas, to mostly purplish commentators' delight over the symbolic significance of the event, Dick Cheney was actually meaning in his own "freedom means freedom for everyone" speech about same-sex weddings.

The style-over-substance hit followed him from continent to continent. "While the president is popular among Europeans," the Wall Street Journal wrote, "he returned from his second trip to Europe with little more progress on key issues" than he got on his first visit. That's the Journal. But the Washington Post, where the John Kennedy myth was nurtured like a golden statue, managed a cautionary op-ed column from Robert Samuelson warning that "our political system works best when a president faces checks on his power." He meant checks from the press.

Samuelson was one of the few in the media to give some room to the Pew Research Center poll.

So far, this is all about image and character and press "opportunities." But with what CNN financial reporter Elizabeth Cohen called this morning "gazillions of dollars" of our money at stake and crazy people with nukes bristling from around the edges of the world, we can't afford not to keep a closer eye on the substance thing.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2009, 12:11:40 PM »
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.

Here was a guy who professes to being a moderate Republican. Yet when a moderate Republican gets the nomination, does he endorse that man? No, he waits until he thinks it safe and endorses the most liberal man in the Senate, and one with virtually NO experience.

I'd like to ask someone why a self-described moderate Republican would endorese the most liberal Democrat nominee of all time. More liberal than McGovern, Mondale or Stevenson. Just WHAT Republican principles does Powell believe in, and where are those found  in Obama?

And once you've explained that, tell me why this man SHOULDNT be ostracized.

Did the Democrats pay any price by running Joe Lieberman out of their party?
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline Cougar1

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2009, 12:21:03 PM »
But you can blame the press, already suffocating under a massive pile of blame, guilt, heavy debt and sinking fortunes, for being played.

Well said.
“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.”

― G.K. Chesterton

sgallan

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2009, 02:58:32 PM »
Well gosh if it is a grand media conspiracy I guess the Republicans will remain the minority party forever then. (rolls eyes)

Now I remember why I have stayed away from political conversations on this board.... they get whiny (boo hoo the media is out to get us) and conspiratorial virtually everytime. I think I'll bail now.

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2009, 03:13:20 PM »
Quote from: "sgallan"
Well gosh if it is a grand media conspiracy I guess the Republicans will remain the minority party forever then. (rolls eyes)

Now I remember why I have stayed away from political conversations on this board.... they get whiny (boo hoo the media is out to get us) and conspiratorial virtually everytime. I think I'll bail now.
Dont let that door hit you on the way out.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline ctc

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2009, 07:41:00 AM »
Quote from: "sgallan"
Well gosh if it is a grand media conspiracy I guess the Republicans will remain the minority party forever then. (rolls eyes)

Now I remember why I have stayed away from political conversations on this board.... they get whiny (boo hoo the media is out to get us) and conspiratorial virtually everytime. I think I'll bail now.
Nobody got ugly with you and called you names.  All that was done to you was viable, healthy debate.  Why the "boo-hoo"?  There are about 5 posters on Jensen's forum that get flat-out nasty.  I only know 3 on here that do the same and 152 has said "good-bye".  People disagree with your assestment and challenge you on it.  Soumds like healthy discource to me.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2009, 06:39:08 PM »
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.


No, I don't mean Colin Powell. I mean people like me and millions of others who support the Republican party because we believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, yet we don't believe in every extremist conspiracy theory that wackos like you and ctc and BOG believe in.

Offline BOG

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2009, 07:44:36 PM »
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "Palin_JoeThePlumber_2012"
The voices of moderate republicans are being drowned out by wackos. This is not good for the party and for the country. Time for the moderates to speak up and the wackos to shut up.
If you mean Colin Powell, lets take a look at that.


No, I don't mean Colin Powell. I mean people like me and millions of others who support the Republican party because we believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ, yet we don't believe in every extremist conspiracy theory that wackos like you and ctc and BOG believe in.

I believe in the following: limited government, fiscal responsibility, pro-life, and the teachings of Jesus Christ. You believe that anyone who criticizes Obama is a believer in a whacko extremist theory. I think your own assumption is what's whacko since  you're the minority on this forum as the poll B/C  documents. You simply disagree with any criticism of Obama and you can't rationally defend his behavior so you're resorting to name calling. You're probably a Democrat playing silly forum games imho.

Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
 
YES   17%  [ 4 ]
NO   83%  [ 19 ] x
 
Total votes : 23
\'just when I thought I was out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN\' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIS1inmjFc

trollster

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2009, 09:01:22 PM »
What is the margin of error for this particular poll?  The sample size seems rather small to be valid.

Offline BOG

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2009, 09:08:46 PM »
Quote from: "trollster"
What is the margin of error for this particular poll?  The sample size seems rather small to be valid.
Nobody is trying to statistically prove anything regarding USA society . It's a statement of fact regarding this forum though. Nice trolling though.
\'just when I thought I was out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN\' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIS1inmjFc

trollster

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2009, 09:21:55 PM »
It's a valid question, what is the margin of error for this particular poll?  First we need to look to at the sample size.  Then we need to examine the demographics of the sample.  Then we have to look at the phrasing of the question and whether it is a leading question or not.  Also what is the standard deviation?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Offline BOG

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2009, 09:28:20 PM »
Quote from: "trollster"
It's a valid question, what is the margin of error for this particular poll?  First we need to look to at the sample size.  Then we need to examine the demographics of the sample.  Then we have to look at the phrasing of the question and whether it is a leading question or not.  Also what is the standard deviation?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Sounds like you need a project to work on. I think you need to update the forum with your final report on this subject in about 2 months when you're finished determining all that vital stuff trollster.
\'just when I thought I was out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN\' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIS1inmjFc

trollster

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2009, 09:35:39 PM »
I have other important things to do.  The original question is a moot point since it has already been settled to most everyone's (except a very small insignificant few) satisfaction.

Offline LoSt

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Re: Would a man with nothing to hide behave like that?
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2009, 02:49:09 AM »
Quote from: "trollster"
It's a valid question, what is the margin of error for this particular poll?  First we need to look to at the sample size.  Then we need to examine the demographics of the sample.  Then we have to look at the phrasing of the question and whether it is a leading question or not.  Also what is the standard deviation?  Inquiring minds want to know.

I started a thread with a similar question and less biased wording and the response was very different.  I never bothered to follow it up, but I was trying to hit on these points.