Author Topic: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution  (Read 26660 times)

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Please read this carefully.

Due to widespread abuse, political discussion has been suspended for three days.  Two areas have been frozen:  Politics >> General and Miscellaneous >> Evolution.  If this interrupts some legitimate, civil discussion underway, we regret the inconvenience.

In the meantime, any attempt to discuss topics which would normally go under these categories will be considered a violation of the rules, and will be punished.  Plainly put:  do not discuss politics or evolution until this ban lapses, or there will be serious consequences.

I have noted many times in the past that it is not feasible to hold a community to a higher standard of conduct than it wishes to be held to.  We have not the time or the inclination to censor much, chasten users for infractions, or settle squabbles.  This leaves us with an unacceptable status quo, and three options for change:

  • Bar problematic users from the political areas.
  • Ban problematic users.
  • End the discussion of polticial topics permanently.

We have not yet decided which direction to take, but it is unlikely that things will remain has they have been.  Only constraints on our (meaning Viratas' and my) time have allowed things to go along this far in such a condition.

Beginning with the last option:  we have conducted a cost/benefit analysis of prohibiting political discussion here, and found that the "cost" column is quite empty.  If there was significant political dialogue taking place on a regular basis, losing it might be a personal concern, since we enjoy good debate.  We should regret to preclude the possibility of significant dialogue, but we must address our actual circumstances.

Short of this measure, it seems more practical to ban users than to attempt to modify their behavior.  There seems to be a population equilibrium in communities:  some natural size to which they tend to grow, and beyond which they do not.  It may be, then, that we shall see other, better-behaved members replace those culled, with a net gain as a civil community.  If not, at least those left will be better able to pursue serious discussion in peace.

The least likely thing would be for us to bar people from the political areas only.  It may be considered, however, in the case that a person has a strong history of making real contributions to wrestling topics.

If you are wondering whether you are a person who may be banned, almost certainly you are.  If, however, you remain in doubt as to how you should behave, consider whether you:

  • post in order to annoy others,
  • insult the people you're speaking to,
  • disrupt (the infrequent) serious conversations,
  • argue as if whom you're talking to is of more importance to you than what you're talking about.

On the other hand, if you feel comfortable that you know who is likely to be banned, and that for one reason or another you are safe despite acting badly, you would do well to think again.  The best that a "he started it" defense will get you is company in exile.  Do not feel that you are safe because you have not been warned:  this is your warning.

You may feel free to discuss this decision here.  Rest assured that you will not be punished or secretly blacklisted for disagreeing with it, though a certain level of decorum is expected here as elsewhere.

Have a good weekend.

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 02:36:10 pm »
Just a suggestion....

Those who post in those two blogs may not see this announcement. I think you should consider posting them there.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 04:53:42 pm »
Odd that a board that has not had a single post on it for almost two months would be locked down.  i.e. Evolution.  With no post for two months there obviously has not been a problem. 
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 05:12:33 pm »


Beginning with the last option:  we have conducted a cost/benefit analysis of prohibiting political discussion here, and found that the "cost" column is quite empty.  If there was significant political dialogue taking place on a regular basis, losing it might be a personal concern, since we enjoy good debate.  We should regret to preclude the possibility of significant dialogue, but we must address our actual circumstances.

Short of this measure, it seems more practical to ban users than to attempt to modify their behavior.  There seems to be a population equilibrium in communities:  some natural size to which they tend to grow, and beyond which they do not.  It may be, then, that we shall see other, better-behaved members replace those culled, with a net gain as a civil community.  If not, at least those left will be better able to pursue serious discussion in peace.



Most likely what you will get with this option is a very manila community of all right wing mostly white wrestling fans.  It would certainly lack any significant dialogue, but you would have a lot of people patting each other on the back with very little true diversity of opinion.  Diversity is the spice of life.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline ban basketball

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2014, 05:35:47 pm »
Of course I know that I'm "one of those" (unfairly, I will add, as all that I do is defend myself against others), but the best thing that the mat.com did was to stop their politics thread.  Ironically, they all moved over here though.

To me, that's an easier fix, but if the choice is made to ban users, I can live with that.
"WELL WE LOVE DIVERSITY OF OPINIONS HERE AT THEOPENMAT! "-VISE GRIP 1-16-15   (NOW TELL HER HOW YOU HAD SPARKY AND ME BANNED).

RONSNAP/HERKEY, "FAITHFUL" UNI FAN THROUGH THICK AND THIN: "THE NEXT PROMO PIC WILL HAVE TO SAY (COLON) LOST TO THE NEW #1" AFTER TONIGHT...I HOPE."- 30 DEC 13, 04:04 PM

Offline mspart

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2014, 05:44:55 pm »
Just a suggestion....

Those who post in those two blogs may not see this announcement. I think you should consider posting them there.

Vise,

It appears that Fuhr has granted your request and there is a notice in both of those boards with a link to this thread.

For my part, I do not wish that the politics thread or Evolution thread be taken away.  Perhaps I will suffer banishment but I think these boards are better with healthy discussion in all topics.  I support the temporary lockdown because discussion has gone to kindergartner level in various venues.  Perhaps this will allow us to contemplate the great gift we have been given on theopenmat forums to discuss various topics of the day with serious minded people.  This pause hopefully will cause us all to reflect on the purpose here and conduct ourselves likewise.  There is nothing truly free and we have been warned our behavior might cause a loss of something we all want.  I will redouble my efforts to be more civil. 

mspart

Offline mspart

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 05:53:17 pm »
Of course I know that I'm "one of those" (unfairly, I will add, as all that I do is defend myself against others), but the best thing that the mat.com did was to stop their politics thread.  Ironically, they all moved over here though.

To me, that's an easier fix, but if the choice is made to ban users, I can live with that.

In breaking with my long standing creed to ignore you Ban, I think I can make an exception on this thread because it is a bigger moment in the existence of this venue. 

If the best thing themat.com did was get rid of the politics thread, what the heck are you doing on TOM's politics board commenting on it all day long?  Your statement is illogical based on your presence on that board.  If you truly feel that way, stick with the other boards.  You have the clear freedom and liberty to steer clear of it if, as you say, it is better not to have it at all.  It would seem much more logical to avoid that board than comment on it profusely if you truly think it shouldn't be there in the first place. 

mspart

Offline Tripster

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2014, 05:54:36 pm »
I am thinking whether I will be banned so I probably will be as per logic above.

Offline Bob H.

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 05:59:00 pm »
It would be ironic if the politics board were removed, since that action on the other board in large part led to the formation of this one.

Offline spider

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 06:01:40 pm »
For awhile, i was unable to post here due to some sort of computer problem. Recently, that seems to have cleared up, but on my visits to the General forum lately, I haven't had any desire to participate in the same old people calling the same old other people the same old names, and on and on and on. Even some of the people with whom I agree often express their opinions in ways that make me reluctant to join in. There are, of course, exceptions, and you know who you are, but for the most part I've been turned off by the level to which the discourse has sunk. I don't consider myself any better or smarter than anyone else on this forum, and I'm probably not as well informed as many, but I know rudeness when I see it.
If you throw away sheet music, does it decompose?

Offline fuhr

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 06:22:20 pm »
Good post spider.  Hope you hang around and discuss wrestling and other random OT stuff.  I blame no one for not wanting to post on the politics board. 
Since Jammen has told me twice to change my signature, I can only assume his wrestling knowledge is no longer something I can count on along with pizza and beer.

Offline none

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 06:26:49 pm »
It would be ironic if the politics board were removed, since that action on the other board in large part led to the formation of this one.

First thought that came to my mind too. Not a good reflection on the wrestling community (and I am to blame as much as anybody) that we can't play nicely.

Offline n9531l

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 06:52:02 pm »
The Politics and Evolution boards have proven valuable to me. Ignoring them in my profile has enabled me to avoid being disturbed by the kinds of posts (and in some cases posters) that appear there, and might otherwise turn up elsewhere in the forums. So I would not want to see those boards go away.

The idea of banning problematic users sounds best to me. If that's the decision, I don't expect anyone will be banned unfairly. But I do expect anyone banned will claim it was unfair.
Orthography is next to cleanliness, which is next to godliness. - n9531l

Offline none

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2014, 07:00:12 pm »
Hmm, I guess this since this is the new policy, and there really isn't a hell of a lot of wrestling discussion, and I am not a fan of the format change in the wrestling specific areas (far less user friendly), and I have issues with this site and firefox (I get here through explorer and I don't like explorer), and I don't spend money on the sport anymore, I guess there is no reason to come to this site anymore.

I have said for years this sport is it's own worst enemy (almost losing the Olympics, all those lost programs, at war with itself). This is another example.

Weird timing because I just volunteered to coach a couple of firefighters kids (trail work is my new volunteer thing - met them there)..... they asked how much I wanted..... LOL, I said if you want to give me something I won't turn it down, but I'm not looking to get paid.

Offline TobusRex

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Re: Important Announcement: Temporary Lock on Politics, Evolution
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 07:51:49 pm »
It would be ironic if the politics board were removed, since that action on the other board in large part led to the formation of this one.

Haha, definitely. It's weird when I agree with you Bob, but it's still nice to do so from time to time!
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