Author Topic: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands  (Read 5030 times)

Offline OkieSpladle

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I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« on: May 28, 2014, 10:43:41 AM »
From the link:

Pre-Allocations. The NCAA Division I Wrestling Committee recommends that the Big 12
Conference no longer have access to pre-allocated spots. The number of Big 12 wrestlers
who earn gold or silver standard will be subtracted from the pre-allocated allotment and all
Big 12 wrestlers will go into the at-large pool (see Nonlegislative Item c).


http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2014_DI_Wrestling_Annual_Report_041514.pdf

A lot of interesting stuff in there, but the Big 12 needs to make a move now more than ever.

Offline grappler6

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 11:34:10 AM »
John Smith said after the NCAA tournament that the Big12 was looking to join the ACC for a qualifying tournament.

Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 11:36:35 AM »
John Smith said after the NCAA tournament that the Big12 was looking to join the ACC for a qualifying tournament.

I saw that and I hope its true.  Unfortunately, this is not the first time that something like that has been brought up and looked like a good possibility.  We never merged with the Pac-12 or the West Regional teams despite rumors to that effect.  The fact that the committee felt the need to take this step makes me think that no move away from a 4 team qualifier was imminent in their minds.

Offline grappler6

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 11:38:12 AM »
I think the big hurdle has always been the Big12 conference commissioners. That they feel it hurts the prestige of the Big12 to join another conference, but imo having only 4 teams hurts more.

Offline brycemus

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 12:15:03 PM »
I agree grappler it looks worse only having four teams.  the ACC wouldn't be a terrible pairing, a lot of travel for a team like Iowa State though if they hold it in Chapel Hill though.
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Offline grappler6

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 01:05:47 PM »
ya and as it was discussed I think the plan was they would not be required to schedule in season duals against one another, so it would basically be the travel for the weekend qualifier tournament. The ACC is quietly becoming a very competitive conference.

Offline brycemus

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 01:07:46 PM »
it makes sense, I mean the Mac would make more sense, but I dont' care who they join as long as they do something!!!!
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Offline Stove Pipe

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 01:54:57 PM »
^^I have never noticed that the ACC decision-makers have been receptive to adding affiliates for wrestling, such as allowing non-ACC programs to participate in the ACC tournament.  It would be a huge reversal in past thinking to have the ACC allow the Big12 to compete in the ACC event.  I would guess that the 4 Big12 teams will end up at different qualifiers, with maybe Okla and Okla State qualifying through the west region.  We shall see.

Offline Rockhard

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 02:48:25 PM »
I can understand why colleges from the Big12 or Pac12(traditional teams) would not want to lose those titles. When they are trying to promote their programs at the school and beyond, Pac12 and Big12 actually mean something. However, in the wrestling world, we all know those conferences are small.

I can also see how an AD would look at it and just say drop a program because "you can't even win an actual Pac12 or Big12 title."

I think we can all agree, if those two conferences were to combine with others, it would make a huge difference in conference tournaments and IMO make everyone better.
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Offline ViseGrip

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 04:12:04 PM »
The ACC shouldnt be the only option here.

Lets not forget teams in the Western Regional Qualifier... Air Force, North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, South Dakota State, Utah Valley and Wyoming. All are closer than the ACC and if the Big XII teams were to be placed in that regional, it wouldnt be a bad tournament.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline Stove Pipe

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 06:10:58 PM »
Yeah, any or all of the Big12 teams that do not hooki-up with a qualifier, likely would be assigned to the west region.  Northern Iowa, by the way, is in the powerful MAC conference.

Offline SetonHallPirate

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 06:32:55 PM »
Yeah, any or all of the Big12 teams that do not hooki-up with a qualifier, likely would be assigned to the west region.  Northern Iowa, by the way, is in the powerful MAC conference.
I'd actually like to see the Iowa State/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State troika hook up with the MAC (which could go to two divisions for dual meets, and West Virginia return to the EWL. I think that may be the best way to resolve this, IMO.

Offline RYou

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 10:26:44 PM »
Why would ACC AD's want to deprive their student athletes of an "ACC Champion" title?
Why would MAC AD's want to deprive their student athletes of an "MAC Champion" title?

Conferences can be a bit egotistical, with exception to the EIWA melting pot.  But the EIWA is just that, the melting pot for alienated schools.

If the combination of the ACC + b12 doesn't enhance the chance for an ACC wrestler to get to the Championship, then why create an alignment.  Personally, I see no benefit to the ACC student athlete or coach.  Ditto MAC.  Sure the MAC let in Missouri and Northern Iowa, but have to be questioning the impact on the student athletes of the original MAC schools.  Adding the B12 suddenly reduces the chance of a " MAC Champion" title.

Since all B12's now go into the at-Large Pool, has anyone calculated how many would have qualified if that format existed this year?  Essentially, I think it hurts B12 since no one can upset their way into the championship tournament for a spot.  Conference seeds that did poorly typically received an at-large bid anyway enabling more wrestlers to qualify than the B12 allotment.

Bottom line the year end "B12 tournament" is now moot.  Upside, they can settle the conference title in a weekend quad meet.

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 11:58:10 PM »
Yeah, any or all of the Big12 teams that do not hooki-up with a qualifier, likely would be assigned to the west region.  Northern Iowa, by the way, is in the powerful MAC conference.
I'd actually like to see the Iowa State/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State troika hook up with the MAC (which could go to two divisions for dual meets, and West Virginia return to the EWL. I think that may be the best way to resolve this, IMO.

WVU will not split from the rest of the Big XII,,,, aint gonna happen..no way no how.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: I hope this finally kills the Big 12 as it stands
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2014, 03:38:41 AM »
With a very small conference, the conference championship tournament could be preserved and simply not be the qualifier anymore.  The Big 12 is a 2 match tournament, currently, and the others are at most 3-4 as I recall.  If it really is a big worry to the ADs drop a dual or two from the conference dual meet schedule and make it happen a little earlier in the year.  Conferences could then combine at will for the qualifiers (it doesn't lessen the odds of an individual qualifying unless the weight had no one earn a spot previously and got the freebie...you could even argue that it helps having bigger brackets and more spots) and still boast of conference titles won by the team and individuals.