Author Topic: Gilman-Waters  (Read 3882 times)

Offline jammen

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Gilman-Waters
« on: February 23, 2015, 10:38:07 AM »
Does anyone know what happened?  Coach Smith says that Referee Tim Shields called an illegal slam on Waters, not Gilman.  I think that Shields is too good of a ref to have done that and there must have been miscommunication somewhere.
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Offline ctc

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 06:11:25 PM »
Several are on "ignore".   I won't argue with the ignorant and disrespectful..
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Offline jammen

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 06:22:59 PM »
Really hard to believe but seems to be confirmed.  I wish Sparks had used Shiels name, as head official could have refered to head scoring offical not the ref.
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Offline matref0

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 06:56:25 PM »
This is my theory and I'm sticking to it until proven wrong.

To caveat, I was not there so theory basis is off the Big 10 Network feed, not the FLO version.

1.  I consider, as well as many others, Tim Shiels as one of the most competent and calm official in college wrestling.  He has done many National Championships and big time duals and he is one of the most consistent officials that I have ever observed.

2.  I believe, that Shiels recognized a slam or drill back and called an illegal hold on someone.  He made the signal for illegal pretty quick.  I believe, and this is where I could wrong, that he intended the penalty to go against Iowa.  Initially he didn't have the chance to show a point because of the actions by the Mizzo wrestler and then follow on by the Iowa wrestler.  The officials became concerned with separating the two wrestlers and eliminating the chaos.  I believe that Shiels didn't see Waters elbow the back of Gillman but the assistant did and likely offered that recommendation as an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

3.  Using the NCAA hand signals, Shiels signaled an illegal hold against Mizzo, then a unsportsmanlike conduct signal against Iowa and then he held out his green fist indicating some sort of bench warning occurred against Iowa (which should never be a surprise).  I contend that Shiels, in the heat of the moment, signaled the correct calls but to the wrong anklets causing more confusion.  I can see how this occurs and I've made this mistake many times during the course of my officiating career especially when both wrestler are wearing similar colored singlets.  If Shiels did intend to penalize Mizzo for the slam (illegal drillback is caused by the defensive wrestler) than I am dumbfounded as many.  I have a lot of respect for Shiels and JR Johnson and I believe they mixed up the colors (I hope I'm right).

4.  Shane Sparks said he talked to the head official prior to reporting.  This is true but Shiels was the head mat official, not the head Big 10 official.  If you watch :05 seconds into the remaining OT period, you can see Sparks hovering around Mike Allen, one of the head Big 10 guys.  That is the head official he interviewed.  The problem is Mike Allen had no more of a clue that was going on than any of us; if you watch the Big 10 video it is clear that Allen is giving the dear in the headlights look.  It would be inconceivable to think that during the course of all this chaos, Sparks somehow got an interview with the mat official in the middle of a dual meet.  Allen simply relayed what he saw Shiels signal to Sparks.  Sparks accurately reported what Allen told him but that doesn't necessarily mean Allen was correct.

Again, if Shiels did signal a slam against Water, I would be very surprised and shocked.  But my theory is it was a mix up on the penalty signals with the ankle bands.

Offline Cruocified

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 07:18:58 PM »
I'm going to have to agree with matref0.  Watching it live I assumed that he called an illegal slam on Gilman then an unsportsmanlike on Waters for the attack on Gilman.  When I heard that it was the other way around I just assumed the reporting was wrong.  Sparks seems insistent that his story is correct, so I'm going to change my assumption to match what matref0 is saying about getting the calls reversed.  All in all it doesn't matter, each wrestlers earned a penalty point, so it worked itself out.
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Offline ctc

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 10:08:56 PM »
matref0, that really sounds correct.  I don't feel so dumbfounded now.
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Offline brycemus

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 03:33:06 PM »
Okiespladle said that they used this match as an example in a recent clinic down where he is stationed
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Offline fsgrecofolk

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2015, 09:45:32 PM »
I wonder if they used the Kent State fiasco from the NCAAs as a teaching point too.

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2015, 02:42:38 AM »
When I saw this thread, I immediately thought, "Pink Floyd".  Then I looked again, and realized it was "Gilman", not "Gilmour".

Carry on.

Offline ctc

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2015, 08:52:14 AM »
When I saw this thread, I immediately thought, "Pink Floyd".  Then I looked again, and realized it was "Gilman", not "Gilmour".

Carry on.
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Several are on "ignore".   I won't argue with the ignorant and disrespectful..
 "People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive" ~ Blaise Pascal

Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: Gilman-Waters
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 09:31:25 AM »
Okiespladle said that they used this match as an example in a recent clinic down where he is stationed

Not a clinic, the official NCAA rules video for this season.  You can find it on youtube.