Author Topic: alltime coaching record?  (Read 4745 times)

Offline jammen

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Offline MNRodent

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2015, 04:15:34 PM »
I don't know Scott Davis personally, but I've been at coaches meetings, clinics, etc. that he has been at, and he seems like an alright guy.  My only thought is, If it was all about more participation and getting more kids involved, then why does he care if the wins are recognized by the MSHSL or not?

Offline TobusRex

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 08:58:45 AM »
I don't know Scott Davis personally, but I've been at coaches meetings, clinics, etc. that he has been at, and he seems like an alright guy.  My only thought is, If it was all about more participation and getting more kids involved, then why does he care if the wins are recognized by the MSHSL or not?

He cares because it's something he worked to achieve.

It seems ridiculous to me not to count results from multiple team meets like quads and such towards a coaches record.
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Offline SingletSlinger

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 10:29:04 AM »
So basically he sent his JV kids to varsity events, then calculated those wins on his win record.
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Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2015, 03:04:09 PM »
I think it comes off as vindictive. I believe Coach Davis was suspended for a year by the MSHSL which caused him to leave for a year (I'm not 100% on this) and maybe it's one of those, "Oh, sorry Scot, you violated a rule, so now we're going to interpret the records differently."

Not uncommon for teams in a quad to put in a bunch of backups against an outgunned team. I mean, we had a 4x champ ranked No. 1 in the country routinely sit so he woudn't bludgeon a first-year wrestler from a less than stellar team.

Sometimes wrestling your backups is sportsmanlike ... sometimes it isn't.
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Offline jammen

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 04:47:07 PM »
yeah, JB called it.  He was suspended for a recruiting violation and now the MSHSL IS punishing him.
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Offline TobusRex

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2015, 05:16:22 PM »
So basically he sent his JV kids to varsity events, then calculated those wins on his win record.

Seems all the more impressive if his JV kids were winning Varsity events.
Have you got to get rid of all your knowledge and all your common sense to save your soul? - Clarence Darrow

Offline SingletSlinger

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2015, 08:34:27 PM »
So basically he sent his JV kids to varsity events, then calculated those wins on his win record.

Seems all the more impressive if his JV kids were winning Varsity events.
If you have a top 25 program in the state your JV should be solid enough to win a good amount of matches against varsity squads.
Bunch of snowflakes run this board, sad how the mods cater to people that support one political party.

Offline Bob H.

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2015, 11:53:56 PM »
It sounds like he was padding his record in violation of state rules.  He's lucky they didn't fine him and sanction the team.

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 02:01:05 AM »
If they want to say he was violating rules by wrestling that many events (quads), then they'd have to disqualify the wins from from every other school that scheduled more matches than the high school association allows.

You can't make selective retroactive enforcement of rules.

This guy routinely had large rosters and kids coming out for the sport. You can pretty much bet his teams in at Owatonna were rarely, if ever, forfeiting weight classes, which is currently a plague on H.S. wrestling. This guy gets kids out for our sport, giving more than just 14 wrestlers significant mat time ... and that's viewed negatively?

I haven't been in Minnesota long, but this one never has passed the smell test.
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Offline Bob H.

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 07:55:24 AM »
If this would have happened in Florida, the team would have been fined and put on probation the first year anyone reported the rules violations to the FHSAA.  The Minnesota association screwed up by not addressing it immediately and instead let it go on for years.

Offline TobusRex

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 08:17:35 AM »
+1 Jason.
Have you got to get rid of all your knowledge and all your common sense to save your soul? - Clarence Darrow

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 10:16:45 AM »
If this would have happened in Florida, the team would have been fined and put on probation the first year anyone reported the rules violations to the FHSAA.  The Minnesota association screwed up by not addressing it immediately and instead let it go on for years.

Bob,
This assumes someone in Florida would have reported the schedule issues. The idea of wrestling these monster rotationals and quads puts a strain on the kids wrestling 50-60 times a year, but when you're splitting that many dual meets between varsity-eligible wrestlers and getting them mat time and keeping them involved in the sport, where's the drawback. I seriously doubt any coach (especially Davis) is set on trying to be the record-holder. People might get the wrong idea about him, but every interaction I've had with him over the years has been excellent.

When it comes to the transferring, etc., that's sticky because Minnesota is open enrollment (to a certain degree). I'm learning the nuances of it as I live up here (although we bought a house in one of the best school systems in the country, not just the state).

I think Davis has made the MSHSL look stupid on a number of occasions in defending allegations that were unfounded. You know this from being associated with power programs that when there's one questionable allegation, there's probably a dozen more farcical ones that don't have legs to stand on. I believe this to be the case with Coach Davis.

Let's take a step back and look at this from a pure wrestling standpoint and not one that's hung up on state championships and wins and losses.

This coach had TONS of kids come out for wrestling -- POSITIVE.
This coach made sure all those backups had opportunities to compete - POSITIVE.
This coach retained wrestlers from year to year -- POSITIVE

This whole crap about wins not counting in quads is bullsh*t. It's like the state association has never heard of how a wrestling event can be run. It's gotta be single duals only? Then you'd have to strike the wins from every coach in the state forever if they want to adhere to that rule.

Selective enforcement.

That's just my opinion.
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Offline RYou

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2015, 04:16:07 PM »
Quads have always been 3 dual meets per team and you don't get 1/3 of win per dual.  On the flip side, the state was aware of the scheduling violation and should have acted years ago.  Shame shame on them for letting the rule be flaunted.

In NJ last year the reigning womens all groups basketball champ over scheduled by one game.  The state barred them from the state tournament this year even though the team was undefeated and ranked #1 once again.all.  It was entirely an AD error, 1st, coach 2nd and he admitted it, yet they still punished the team; the kids.  Inner city team too.

I applaude his efforts to grow the sport and his creativity to get more live bout time, but if there was in fact a state 36 dual cap, the state should have been involved a lot sooner

Offline SingletSlinger

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Re: alltime coaching record?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2015, 08:47:27 PM »
Some of the top teams around here are starting to send Varsity "B" teams aka JV to varsity events to get better competition for their second level kids. However, I do not see any of the coaches counting those wins on their records. Maybe they should...not sure of the validity in that. The schools have to be cautious of doing it due to some schools not exactly being  a fan of wrestling JV teams at varsity events.

Minnesota should have addressed the issue when it started instead of retroactively.
Bunch of snowflakes run this board, sad how the mods cater to people that support one political party.