Author Topic: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy  (Read 4128 times)

Offline Rockhard

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What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« on: July 19, 2015, 09:15:04 PM »
From Facebook. Why doesnt this surprise me.

Marcie Lane Van Dusen

It's a long one but worth reading. I was kicked off the floor of the Fargo Dome today and told I am not allowed to coach with my 8 month old daughter.

The life of a woman wrestler has always had its trials. Anyone who has walked in those shoes can tell you a story where they were not treated fairly for one reason and one reason alone because they are a female wrestler.

Fighting for my right to be in the sport of wrestling is not new to me. I learned when I was 8 years old that if I wanted to wrestle I would have to work harder than everyone in the room, I would have to keep my head high even if I was feeling low and I would have to fight for every inch on the mat. I believe there still is a fight for many young women who want to be accepted in the wrestling room. There have been improvements and coaches are better about accepting women in their rooms, some because they have learned to change and see wrestling is good for every person and some because they have no other choice (thank you title IX).

I have been coaching full time, year around for 5 years now and let me tell you many days I still feel like that 8-year-old girl trying to fight my way on the mat but this time it’s as a female coach. I believe it’s important for young athletes both male and female to see women in every role of sports from coaches to officials to organizers.

This past year I embarked on a new journey, as a mother and I could not be more thankful for this new adventure. I have been lucky over the past year to take my daughter with me and continue to coach. We traveled to Oklahoma for girls’ folkstyle nationals, to Nevada for the US Open, to Texas for freestyle UWW Nationals and to Wisconsin for the World Team Trials. My daughter has come with me to every competition and I have coaches at each of those competitions with her.

Today I was asked to leave the floor of the Fargo Dome because I had my 8 month old daughter with me. I was told by both the staff of USA Wrestling and the Fargo Dome that I was not allowed to be on the floor. I was told kids are not allowed on the floor, I asked if that was in their policy and I was told that it was not but they do have the right to refuse service to anyone. I truly don’t believe the problem was the safety of my daughter (as I watched several kids on the floor of the Fargo Dome not being asked to leave) I believe the problem was I am a female coach at the Cadet Greco tournament coaching men. I don’t believe this is the view of USAW as they have allowed me to coach with my daughter in several different venues this year. I do believe it was the belief of the man working for the Fargo Dome who asked me what I was doing there in the first place. USAW did have a chance to allow me to coach with my daughter by signing a waiver saying they would be reasonable if anything were to happen while I was coaching and they refused to sign the waiver.

I do love coaching, and think it’s important for young women to see females in coaching rolls and in the rolls of motherhood but I refuse to leave my daughter at home when she is so young. I am a hands on parent and if you ask me to take time away from my daughter my answer will always be no. I would like to have more kids (at lease one) and if that means I can’t be around wresting events as a coach because they don’t support women coaches, as mothers then so be it.

In the mean time I do still have the 8 yr old fight in me and this will not be the last we hear of this issue.
"Really? Well please tell your father-in-law that he is a freaking idiot."

Offline Bob H.

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 10:38:59 PM »
While I can feel some sympathy for her, I don't think an 8 month old belongs on the competition floor.  Have someone on her team watch her daughter while she is coaching.

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 11:25:02 PM »
First off, as a father who has coached while packing infants along, I feel strongly that this is not a women's issue.  It's a matter of how we manage families, within our sport.

Second, it's only hypocrisy if men are allowed to have their infants on the floor at Fargo.  That said, I'm by no means confident that that hasn't been the case.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if it turns out that some guy had his 8-month-old in a papoose in the corner.  I could certainly see a woman attracting more attention by doing so, and thus running into problems where a man might not.

There is a significant safety issue here.  Near the mats, there are bodies moving around at speed, and they frequently leave the mats out of control.  If you've been around much, you've probably seen refs and tables knocked over.  I have certainly had athletes come crashing into my corner, and I've had to dodge athletes when I was walking by mats.

With a safety issue comes a liability issue.  I'm not clear on what Ms. Van Dusen was saying about the waiver, but in America you can't waive a minor's right to sue (or to have a lawsuit pressed in their behalf).  The waivers people sign for their kids to participate in various activities have a very simple purpose:  they discourage people from suing, or thinking that they can sue.  Allowing a parent to make decisions and take responsibility for the consequences is actually a position I like, but it's not reality here and now.

So, let's say the tournament staff says, "Sure!" and then goes back to business.  Then the kid gets flattened.  Speaking as a non-attorney, my guess is, they're screwed.

Ms. Van Dusen has a good point about other kids being on the floor at Fargo (though I suspect they're not infants) and her complaint illustrates a deficit:  there should be some policy on this sort of thing.  Our people should be treated fairly and consistently.

Here's how I see the policy debate going.  If one person can bring her infant on the floor, certainly another should.  As the number of infants on the floor goes up, so does the probability that at some point one of them will be injured.  The proprietors of the tournament, and likely the organization behind it, will then be liable for the accident.  Therefore, no infants on the floor.

That leaves two obvious questions: what should the age cutoff be, and what does this mean for other tournaments?

Offline Rockhard

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 11:35:12 PM »
Here is the hypocrisy IMO: They have rules for some and rules for others. They follow them when they see fit. For instance, anyone can be on the floor now, if they got the money. Parents that aren't even coaches can buy their way onto the floor. BS IMO. This is a national team tournament that we are slowly making a joke out of. This used to be an organized event where you had qualified coaches on the floor and now its a free for all. We have officials who pick and choose who they want to win or lose based on who is on the corner or who is tough. Average kids have to compete against their opponent, the refs and the opposing coaches. If Marcie had flashed around some money, this would be a non-issue.
"Really? Well please tell your father-in-law that he is a freaking idiot."

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 12:02:50 PM »
The conspiracy theorist in Rock still remains.

I support Marcie in her parental rights, especially since there was one infant in a baby bjorn there last year (they arranged for sitting with friends/family this year), but I don't think that's exactly the place for an infant. I think the bigger issue was with how she was approached and not the fact she was a woman and not the fact she was coaching boys. I don't think it's the women coaching men thing, because Maryland's Nicole Woody was coaching the boys the entire week.

There's a difference between a volunteer tapper and an infant though. You have to be a valid, card-holding coach to be on the floor COACHING in Fargo. There are people who find loopholes to get on the floor as volunteers.

Just feel like this is another "don't know all the facts" type of bitch fest at USAW.

My daughter has been in wrestling rooms and at tournaments, but never actually near the competition. She was in the stands during competition and never in a room/event matside.
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it. -- Mitch Hedberg

Offline Rockhard

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 04:59:55 PM »
No conspiracy in my last post. Nothing but facts.
"Really? Well please tell your father-in-law that he is a freaking idiot."

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2015, 04:06:48 PM »
Post lacked any single specific instance to support claim, thus is not a factual, it's a biased opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but don't call it a fact when you don't outline a single one. Apples fall out of a tree - that's a fact. A bunch of things fell out of trees - Not a fact because there's no specifics.

Do I believe infants should be on the floor at nationals? -- No.
Was this handled properly by the security at the Fargodome (the individual is a Fargo officer, not a USAW employee) -- No.
Was this about Marcie not being allowed to coach men? -- No.

Rock,
You're also forgetting Marcie's association has the cash, according a former poster here who was openly critical of CAUSAW. If anyone has the cash, it's California (even though she was splitting time with Alaska). They could have flashed all sorts of cash at this guy -- wouldn't have mattered. Seriously.

If USAW cured cancer, you'd have a problem with them somehow, right?

Mic drop. (smiley face)
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it. -- Mitch Hedberg

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2015, 04:10:09 PM »
If the Tommies start including a Most Easily Trolled category, we're naming it the Jason Bryant Award.

Offline Rockhard

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2015, 10:56:17 PM »
If I listed all the specifics, like I've done in the past, there wouldn't be enough internet to post them all.
"Really? Well please tell your father-in-law that he is a freaking idiot."

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2015, 03:06:10 PM »
If the Tommies start including a Most Easily Trolled category, we're naming it the Jason Bryant Award.

Ray, I'd have to agree. Although it takes a special type to really get the trolled award and Rock's been doing it so well to me for years, I just can't help but bite.

Rock, ain't trying to make it personal.
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it. -- Mitch Hedberg

Offline Rockhard

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2015, 11:28:06 PM »
If the Tommies start including a Most Easily Trolled category, we're naming it the Jason Bryant Award.

Ray, I'd have to agree. Although it takes a special type to really get the trolled award and Rock's been doing it so well to me for years, I just can't help but bite.

Rock, ain't trying to make it personal.

That's why you keep me around.
"Really? Well please tell your father-in-law that he is a freaking idiot."

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2015, 10:12:16 AM »
Ain't you down with current events? Don't work here no more ... oh wait, that's my sig on TOS.
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it. -- Mitch Hedberg

Offline Rockhard

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Re: What's Fargo without some hypocrisy
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2015, 05:45:26 PM »
Ain't you down with current events? Don't work here no more ... oh wait, that's my sig on TOS.

I know. You keep me around in your heart.
"Really? Well please tell your father-in-law that he is a freaking idiot."