Author Topic: Some calls that I have questions on  (Read 731 times)

Offline FalconWrestlingKY

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Some calls that I have questions on
« on: January 11, 2016, 12:37:17 pm »
So we just had our County championships. Really these results only matter in determining seeding for our region championship (our region basically just being Louisville itself). So I tried to not let the results get to me. The reffing was a bit under par from my vantage point, but I acknowledge that's a common complaint from coaches. So instead of ranting about the refs I figured I should ask other ref's opinions concerning some of the calls that happened this weekend.

1. Strange Stalling calls

I have a couple of these. One was where Wrestler A has hit a stand up from bottom position then turns and picks up Wrestler B's leg preventing an effective mat return. Wrestler A makes no further moves to escape control, just maintains the hold on wrestler B's leg. Wrestler B is then called for stalling for "failure to move towards an effective return," we argue that Wrestler A can't simply hold the leg and force Wrestler B to make an ineffective mat return.

Another situation was Wrestler A was in bottom position and was constantly getting broken down. He continued building his base but couldn't stop getting broken down. Ref calls wrestler A for stalling "not making an effective move to an escape." I argued that I was pretty certain the rules says it doesn't matter if he can't escape as long as he is improving his position. We needed the escape it wasn't like he was laying down to secure a win.

Last one was really just a late stalling call in my opinion. Wrestler A was riding hips for a while, fighting for wrist control but still just staying on hips. But the stalling call wasn't made until after Wrestler A has locked up a cradle and moved to the side to finish it.

2. Missed Takedown

This was in the championship match so there were two refs. At a flurry in the end of the period Wrestler A secures a head and arm pinning combination and traps Wrestler B on their back. This wasn't a headlock throw, it was a finish to a scramble. The hold is secured for about 2-3 seconds to end the period. Head ref calls no takedown, second ref comes over and talks to him about it but the head ref says the call stands. Head ref's argument when we go to the table is that "yes Wrestler A had Wrestler B on their back but I decided the hold wasn't long enough." Really I'm sort of stuck because I recognize that reaction time is to the discretion of the ref, it's notable for two reasons. First was that the match was decided by one point following a severe case of stalling on bottom in the third period, my wrestler didn't cut him when I told him to for a whole minute so that's on him and not the ref, but it is one of the more talked about matches of the tournament especially considering the two wrestlers a potential state finalists. It is also notable because the second ref is considered one of the top officials in Kentucky while the head ref is well let's just say not a top official, and the second ref was adamant it was a takedown. I was still in the chair because next wrestler was in the finals and I overheard the other refs berating the head ref from the previous match saying that it was a takedown. Basically I had the bad luck of having the only ref in the arena who wouldn't call it a takedown.

3. Letting a coach get out of control

Coach A is a noted hot-head infamous for constant warnings for coming onto the mat during matches. During a match he starts shouting at the ref for a good two periods straight over his claim that wrestler A is stalling. Basically I am just noting that I have never seen a coach go that far out of control without the ref at least telling the coach to calm down.

4. Questionable Fall

This was a call that went our way, I'm still confident we win the match but it was probably the most controversial match of the day before the later finals match. Basically Wrestler A hits a variation of the Granby Roll that ends with him stacking Wrestler B with a couple seconds left in the match. Wrestler B was flat on his back, that wasn't argued. Wrestler B's coach says that they can't call the pin because he didn't count out two seconds before slapping the mat. You could argue that Wrestler B was only flat on his back for a second and wasn't flat for the whole two seconds. The ref tells Wrestler B's coach that he won't overturn a fall.
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Offline red viking

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Re: Some calls that I have questions on
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 01:07:05 pm »
I generally agree with what you said based on the way you describe it but I bet the official had a different description of what was going on for at least some of these. In scenario #1 it sounds like a stalemate situation. Putting the wrestlers back down penalizes the bottom man for not doing anything to finish the move so I think that is appropriate. It is hard for the top man to bring the bottom man back down if he is only standing on one leg. Whoever is causing the stalemate can be called for stalling if they do it repeatedly. 

Officials shouldn't berate each other in front of other coaches so if they were doing that it was probably a pretty extreme situation.
A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth - Albert Einstein, 1901