Author Topic: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?  (Read 28481 times)

Offline Rockhard

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Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« on: March 29, 2016, 07:31:46 PM »
Now that we're a few years in and what I said would happen, has indeed happened(big10/12 reap the benefits and everyone else fights for scraps), is it time to to a more fair system for qualifying?

I say top 4 from each conference go to NCAAs. This will allow the sport to grow in all regions instead of just a few.
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Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 07:40:46 PM »
I thought you were against communism?

Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 08:01:21 PM »
Also, there is no basis for arguing that the Big 10/12 have gotten more under the new system.  The current year system started in 2009.  In 2008 (under the old system) the Big 10 got 72 (with 11 teams) and the Big 12 got 38 (with 5 teams).  This year the Big 10 got 71 (with 14 teams) and the Big 12 got 36 (with 10, though it might be a wash given West Va and the 6 new teams might just equal Nebraska and Mizzou).  Your argument doesn't hold weight.

 Only once has the Big 10 exceeded 74 under the new system and it was last year when the Big 12 got 0 so there were more bids available.  Also, not once has the Big 12 exceeded the 38 they got under the old system.  The ACC is WAY up.  EIWA up a little, though mostly steady.  EWL down.  MAC way up.  Pac-12 way down (who could argue the quality is down out there right now?) and the SoCon is level.

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 09:46:21 AM »
This system clearly makes sure the best 330 (save one or two) get to the tournament, regardless of conference.

Back in 2006, I broke down some great seasons and there were probably 20 wrestlers who should have qualified based on their body of work that didn't.

The top four in the Big Ten are typically head and shoulders above the top four in the six-team EWL.

Take the top four in each conference this year -- and then compare them to who qualified in each weight class and I think it's clear what weight class would be better.

I don't believe people would start filling rosters at Clarion or Bloomsburg because they have a better shot at qualifying. People will still go to the power programs because they are the power programs and power conferences.

I also feel a "regional" model could be damaging for Division I because conference affiliation (or lack thereof) can often be cited as a reason for programs to be dropped. We don't see that in Division II and Division III because they're less worried about conference affiliation than Division I athletic directors are.

This system is clearly the most fair way to qualify wrestlers to the tournament while keeping the integrity of the existing conference tournaments intact.
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Offline buf87

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 02:46:52 PM »
The Big 10 is so top heavy and Southern Conference so weak.  It does not make any sense to take top 4 from both qualifiers and not be leaving some top talent home. 

If your idea is implemented, then you have to break the Big 10 up and divide up into regions and still leave at large bids.

I agree with Jason.  This is probably the best system

Offline Rockhard

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 03:02:17 PM »
Right now we have a system where as long as you're varsity in the Big10/12, you pretty much qualify for NCAA's. Then, it requires teams to have a hefty travel budget in order to even attend a tournament, when those previous teams can just wrestle each other and not have to worry about losing a qualifier. It also encourages teams to avoid other teams, in order to help keep allocations.

This system also encourages programs to drop. Why would an AD even care about a program, if they never had a chance to win? What's going to happen under this current system is, the Big10/12, maybe the ACC, EIWA, and MAC will be the only conferences with wrestling, we'll have about 40 teams or less just wrestling each other every week. We should be looking for ways to strengthen our leagues, not cripple them.
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Online RYou

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 03:06:37 PM »

I also feel a "regional" model could be damaging for Division I because conference affiliation (or lack thereof) can often be cited as a reason for programs to be dropped.

We don't see that in Division II and Division III because they're less worried about conference affiliation than Division I athletic directors are.


Why ?  ADs follow the money, the TV revenue that is.  When a school can jump from $6 mil annually to $24 mil., of course they are going to jump conferences. It's just not there for D II & III.

Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 03:38:10 PM »
Right now we have a system where as long as you're varsity in the Big10/12, you pretty much qualify for NCAA's. Then, it requires teams to have a hefty travel budget in order to even attend a tournament, when those previous teams can just wrestle each other and not have to worry about losing a qualifier. It also encourages teams to avoid other teams, in order to help keep allocations.

This system also encourages programs to drop. Why would an AD even care about a program, if they never had a chance to win? What's going to happen under this current system is, the Big10/12, maybe the ACC, EIWA, and MAC will be the only conferences with wrestling, we'll have about 40 teams or less just wrestling each other every week. We should be looking for ways to strengthen our leagues, not cripple them.

You're not even trying.  Troll score 0/10

Offline fuhr

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 04:05:17 PM »
Right now we have a system where as long as you're varsity in the Big10/12, you pretty much qualify for NCAA's. Then, it requires teams to have a hefty travel budget in order to even attend a tournament, when those previous teams can just wrestle each other and not have to worry about losing a qualifier. It also encourages teams to avoid other teams, in order to help keep allocations.

This system also encourages programs to drop. Why would an AD even care about a program, if they never had a chance to win? What's going to happen under this current system is, the Big10/12, maybe the ACC, EIWA, and MAC will be the only conferences with wrestling, we'll have about 40 teams or less just wrestling each other every week. We should be looking for ways to strengthen our leagues, not cripple them.

You're not even trying.  Troll score 0/10


This.  At least I hope you're trolling and really don't believe that. 
Since Jammen has told me twice to change my signature, I can only assume his wrestling knowledge is no longer something I can count on along with pizza and beer.

Offline fuhr

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 04:17:05 PM »
If you're not trolling and are being serious you are advocating for not taking the best wrestlers to nationals in "fairness" to others.  This is like the ol' "everybody deserves a trophy" mentality.  Want to qualify for nationals, win more matches. Don't lobby for communism (thanks Okie).  Not to mention that stats pointed out by Okie that the B1G hasn't benefited in getting more qualifiers than they did before.   


Assuming this is because the PAC is way down, if you can name guys who deserved to be there and would have pushed for AA status but were left home because they didn't have enough qualifiers for the PAC, I'd be interested in the names and how their season went.
Since Jammen has told me twice to change my signature, I can only assume his wrestling knowledge is no longer something I can count on along with pizza and beer.

Offline SingletSlinger

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 04:23:57 PM »
Rock is turning into a Bernie fan really quickly.
Bunch of snowflakes run this board, sad how the mods cater to people that support one political party.

Offline regulator130

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 04:36:22 PM »
Right now we have a system where as long as you're varsity in the Big10/12, you pretty much qualify for NCAA's. Then, it requires teams to have a hefty travel budget in order to even attend a tournament, when those previous teams can just wrestle each other and not have to worry about losing a qualifier. It also encourages teams to avoid other teams, in order to help keep allocations.

This system also encourages programs to drop. Why would an AD even care about a program, if they never had a chance to win? What's going to happen under this current system is, the Big10/12, maybe the ACC, EIWA, and MAC will be the only conferences with wrestling, we'll have about 40 teams or less just wrestling each other every week. We should be looking for ways to strengthen our leagues, not cripple them.

You do realize that 71 out of 140 varsity big ten wrestlers is just over 50% right?

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 04:41:32 PM »
You don't "pretty much" qualify. That's apparent with 14 teams in the Big Ten and the MAX auto-qualifying out of the conference this year was 10. Some weights were only good enough to qualify 5-6.

Sure, if you start at a Big Ten school, you're probably pretty good, but you still have to actually win some matches. You don't start in the B1G, go 12-20 and automatically get a berth. The same opportunity exists for a sub-.500 guy to qualify out of the Pac-12 as it does the B1G. Sure, you might have to win a match or two more in the Pac-12 to steal a berth, whereas in the B1G, you could steal one, but think about who they have to beat to steal that spot.

Top 4 in some conferences, even the Big 12 with its current alignment, is not an automatic.

You still have to win matches -- at some point. And if the Big Ten guys who are horrible within the conference are beating conference champs from smaller conferences ... well, that's wrestling.
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Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 08:02:42 PM »
I have a solution which will give everyone a fair shot at making nationals.

First, you compete in your conference tournament.  You need to place top 4 in order to have a shot at moving on.

Once you finish your last match, the referee approaches you with a bag.  The bag contains a red ball and a green ball...

Offline brycemus

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Re: Is the current allocation system best for wrestling?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2016, 08:10:33 PM »
I have a solution which will give everyone a fair shot at making nationals.

First, you compete in your conference tournament.  You need to place top 4 in order to have a shot at moving on.

Once you finish your last match, the referee approaches you with a bag.  The bag contains a red ball and a green ball...
This made me laugh
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