Author Topic: Half nelsons  (Read 928 times)

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Half nelsons
« on: December 10, 2016, 07:53:44 pm »
Dear All:

With kids being so gumby like, I always struggle when to call Potentially Dangerous and when to let it go....anyone have an easy way to know when to call PD and when not to. I always stay close in these situations, but I'm never sure if I should call it or not...I like to err on the cautious side, but I don't want to take a pinning situation away.....any help would be appreciated.

Offline red viking

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2016, 07:59:04 pm »
I typically call it when the elbow goes past the midline of the neck.
A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth - Albert Einstein, 1901

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2016, 08:01:00 pm »
Can the defensive wrestler turn to relieve the pressure?  If he can't, you have to use your judgement.  If he can, then he's making a choice; the purpose of the potentially dangerous call is not to get him out of that choice.

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2016, 09:07:47 pm »
Ray,

I like your train of thought, but there are stubborn kids who would rather go through the pain than to possibly get pinned. I do like Viking's objective idea with the elbow.

Thanks so much gentleman!

Offline matref0

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2016, 12:36:57 pm »
I hate to give the canned "use your judgement" response but I believe it applies here.  You are going to have to get comfortable with you allow or won't allow.  PD is not designed to prevent pain or discomfort.  It is for preventing a potential injury.  I'm sure I've bailed some wrestlers out over the years by stopping it, but I stopped it because it crossed my personal threshold for what I thought normal range of motion of a joint was.

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2016, 02:44:33 pm »
Matref,

Thank you for sharing this. Every situation is unique, and every wrestler's flexibility is different as well. I had a kid the other day that was icing his shoulder after the match, and the coach gave me grief for not stopping it. IMHO, the half looked fine, just made me think, and wanted to get other people's opinions as well.

Thanks so much to everyone who has chimed in.

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 05:30:00 pm »
I like your train of thought, but there are stubborn kids who would rather go through the pain than to possibly get pinned.

And I respect those kids enough to let them.  I do consider several factors, though.

Awareness, for instance.  It is possible that while a wrestler could roll to relieve the pressure, he simply doesn't know to do so.  So, with the half, for instance:  let's say I'm on my base with my chest low and my left leg propped out. You have a half on my right arm, and are driving directly toward my propped leg.  My arm is entirely behind my head, and my upper body is twisting with the pressure.

Now objectively, all I have to do to relieve the pressure is to bend my left leg, dropping to my knee and allowing you to turn me. But if I'm under great duress, I may not figure that out.  If I think an athlete can relieve the pressure, but has no idea how, I'll probably stop it.

Speed is also an issue.  Some dangerous situations evolve faster than the defensive wrestler can react to defend himself.  This also relates to awareness:  sometimes I would figure out what to do, if I had a little more time.  Again, if I see an injury coming that isn't just a matter of the defensive wrestler being stubborn, I'll stop it.

Age and experience also matter.  With 8-year-olds, "keep anybody from getting hurt" overrides most other considerations.  Likewise, I'd pull a first-year high school kid out of more situations than an experienced one.  At the other end of the spectrum, a DI wrestler is a grown man, and relatively expert.  If he wants to fight going to his back at all costs, let him.

I had a kid the other day that was icing his shoulder after the match, and the coach gave me grief for not stopping it.

"There was nothing stopping him from rolling with it" is a good response in such a situation, too.

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2016, 06:34:38 pm »
Oh, one other issue warrants mention.  Rather the opposite of making greater allowance for less experienced wrestlers, very flexible wrestlers should be discouraged from putting themselves in potentially dangerous situations in order to have the ref get them out.  You still have to call potentially dangerous if injury is imminent, of course.  But an athlete who throws his arm behind his head to make a half dangerous should be given ample time to consider the error of his ways, if possible.

Offline mspart

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Re: Half nelsons
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2017, 04:37:34 pm »
Like the Kolat's impossible knee.  Everyone knew about the knee.  He retired and came back to make another Olympics.  A new ref, I guess, called potentially dangerous because he had never seen a knee do that before.  Kolat looked at him like he was crazy.  He didn't make the Olympic team but he was very entertaining to watch. 

mspart