Author Topic: Correct throw  (Read 661 times)

Offline mspart

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Correct throw
« on: April 29, 2017, 10:21:57 am »
Can anyone explain this one?  Apparently Oliver did it to Retherford and themat forums are ablaze.  Here's the gif.  Ref's gave Oliver 2 for correct throw.   I can see no points but that would be going back to old rules.  Oliver tried, put himself in danger but didn't convert.  But it does not appear Retherfords back was exposed but his shoulders were.  Anyway, an explanation of the rule would be great.

https://twitter.com/FloWrestling/status/858165880265494528

mspart

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2017, 11:00:24 am »
Last night someone pulled that up on a phone, and asked me to call it. I immediately said, "One point: correct throw." I was behind on the rules, though; it's now 2 in freestyle as well as Greco.

This is not a new call at all. Here's the explanation in the rulebook:

Quote from: International Rules
CORRECT HOLD/ACTION: an action by the offensive wrestler that causes his or her opponent to change direction or move through the air but does not cause the opponent to expose his or her back towards the mat.  This situation can occur either in a standing or par terre position. It is the job of the officiating team to reward risk and good technique, hence the rewarding for “correct holds/throws.”

Essentially, if you execute a throw which would be four, but the defensive man manages not to expose, and the action does not result in a takedown, you call "correct throw". There are some technical guidelines about what needs to happen, but the  explanation I've heard several of our best refs give is that the defensive man "goes ass over teacup."

In the present case, blue starts with a position of advantage, and red attempts a throw. Blue does not put red on his back, or catch him there; no points for blue. Red's throw does not cause blue to expose, but it does take him ass over teacup, and force him to rotate in the air in order to avoid exposure. Correct throw.

By the way, if someone attempts that counter on you, drop to your knees. You'll probably get 4 out of it.

Offline RYou

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 07:48:13 am »
All of the US Open bouts are up on youtube if you don't want to pay Flo.

Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 01:37:15 pm »
Ray is spot on as usual.  It makes a lot of sense in Greco, but I hate it in freestyle, especially now that it is equivalent to a takedown or exposure.  This is a great example of why I don't like it.  Retherford is attacking, working to score and Oliver hits a counter which, while it successfully got him out of danger, it didn't score under any of the other scoring criteria.  That's no points all day under a fair rule set, IMO, but now it scores the same as if he had gotten a takedown off of it. 

Nahshon hit one on Ramos late in the finals that I wondered about too.  He slipped a little, but it looked like it met the criteria, even though, again, he didn't meet any of the traditional scoring criteria.  I think it was just after the buzzer, but if he'd done it at 1 second, I'd have been interested to see the call.  Terrible rule. I'm hoping there is some clarification on it between now and the World Championships to limit its use.

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2017, 02:38:50 pm »
I tend to doubt there will be much change in how it's called, since that's not new. I don't think making it worth two was a good idea, however. One of the virtues of a two-point takedown is that you can give out smaller rewards. Correct Throw is like saying, "nice try", and giving a pat on the back.  It might be worth rewarding, since in what would otherwise be a tie you'd might as well give the match to the athlete who hit something interesting (e.g. a high souplesse where the other man barely managed to avoid exposure). But it's not as good as a takedown, and shouldn't be rewarded as such.

Offline RYou

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2017, 03:56:28 pm »
What's the penalty for hand in the face, 1 point of 2 ?  Whichever, it cost Retherford the bout.  Looks like he did it twice in the span of about 5 sec's, and the penalty cost him the but and the 4-4 tie breaker.

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2017, 04:31:57 pm »
Caution and two.  Tie-breaking criteria go: most cautions, then highest-scoring technique, then last point scored.

Offline mspart

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 11:57:02 am »
All of the US Open bouts are up on youtube if you don't want to pay Flo.

Thanks Ryou - I've watched a few already.  I heard Flo's streaming lacked integrity somewhat.  I'm glad I didn't pay for the service or I would be really upset.   Plus I got some stuff done on Saturday!!

mspart

Offline mspart

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2017, 05:16:09 pm »
All of the US Open bouts are up on youtube if you don't want to pay Flo.

Apparently, FLO  had them taken down. 

mspart

Offline RYou

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Re: Correct throw
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2017, 08:18:26 am »
Looks like the weenies did flex the copyright card.  I tried to find Dake and Burroughs, and it was gone.