Author Topic: Was this match called correctly?  (Read 230 times)

Offline caseman

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Was this match called correctly?
« on: March 07, 2019, 01:14:39 PM »
I am not a ref, but would like those of you on this board to chime in and provide clarification on stalling calls in OT.

The video below is between Facundo of Davison (#1 in country at 160) and Amine of Detroit Catholic Central (#2 in country at 152).  The schools are huge rivals.  Facundo beat Amine in state finals last year.  The match is being held at DCC

Let me know how you would have called the match....

https://youtu.be/cHXpuI8KH3o

Better to die of thirst than drink from the cup of mediocrity

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Was this match called correctly?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2019, 03:23:19 PM »
First and foremost, thanks for sharing this match.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHXpuI8KH3o

Secondly, I have to give props to the ref to WAVE OFF that TD in overtime. Kudos to assistant to helping the ref to make the correct call here.

Unfortunately, in UTB....you're only allowed one quick stalemate in regards to "freezing wrestling." Even though the first stalemate was for not returning the wrestler to the mat and the second one was on the ankle, they are both attempts at "freezing wrestling," therefore STALLING and a point should have been given since the wrestler was already warned.

I believe if the match was appealed, Red would have been given the victory, if appeals are allowed in whatever state this occurred. There are a few times Green could have been warned for stalling earlier in the match too. I don't think green took his first shot until the last few seconds of the third period. Red didn't take too many either, but he definitely took 3 or 4 legit shots and was definitely the aggressor.

It was a great chess match, but, unfortunately, at least according to NYS interpretation of NFHS UTB rules, this would have been stalemate, stalling [since warning was already been given earlier] and match would have been awarded to red.

Thanks again for sharing.

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Was this match called correctly?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2019, 03:25:40 PM »
From NYS Green Book....

Stalling During The Ultimate Tiebreaker

The ultimate tie breaker presents a different format when it comes to stalling. The referee should take into account that the
offensive wrestler does not have to score to win, and can win by controlling the defensive wrestler for 30 seconds. If the
defensive wrestler scores the match is concluded. This could be by an escape, reversal or through a penalty point(s). If the
offensive wrestler scores the match is also concluded. If neither wrestler scores, the offensive wrestler will be awarded one
point and declared the winner.


To ensure that the offensive wrestler does not take advantage of the 30 seconds by just grabbing onto a body part(s) and
holding on, a stalemate should be called immediately. After determining that the offensive wrestler has grabbed onto a
body part(s) solely in an effort to prevent the defensive wrestler from scoring, the offensive wrestler will only be given one
quick stalemate. Following the quick stalemate wrestling will resume from the offensive starting position on the mat; if the
offensive wrestler uses any tactic designed to "freeze wrestling" or any of the tactics listed below stalling shall be called.
The obligation to attempt to secure a fall goes away during the ultimate tiebreaker but the offensive wrestler is still
obligated to wrestle.

If the offensive wrestler immediately grasps an ankle and is simply hanging on, or drops to both ankles (watch for locked
hands), jumps into a side head lock with no attempt to improve or lifts the opponent off the mat with no attempt to bring
them back down, one quick stalemate will be called. If the offensive wrestler continues any of these or similar maneuvers,
stalling will be called.

If the offensive wrestler is holding a leg in the air from a standing position or is in a rear standing position, they must
attempt to return their opponent to the mat just as they would in the regulation match.

Note: Once the offensive wrestler successfully returns their opponent to the mat there is no obligation to attempt to pin. It
is acceptable to ride their opponent and remain parallel. Controlled wrestling examples would include but not be limited
to: cradle, arm bar, chicken wing, spiral ride, half nelson, two on one, heal to the butt, leg rides etc. There is no obligation
to come out to the side and get off the opponent’s hips. (2015-16 NFHS Pre-Season Guide)

Offline caseman

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Re: Was this match called correctly?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2019, 10:44:17 AM »
Quote
Secondly, I have to give props to the ref to WAVE OFF that TD in overtime. Kudos to assistant to helping the ref to make the correct call here.

Unfortunately, in UTB....you're only allowed one quick stalemate in regards to "freezing wrestling." Even though the first stalemate was for not returning the wrestler to the mat and the second one was on the ankle, they are both attempts at "freezing wrestling," therefore STALLING and a point should have been given since the wrestler was already warned.

I believe if the match was appealed, Red would have been given the victory, if appeals are allowed in whatever state this occurred. There are a few times Green could have been warned for stalling earlier in the match too. I don't think green took his first shot until the last few seconds of the third period. Red didn't take too many either, but he definitely took 3 or 4 legit shots and was definitely the aggressor.

thanks for your assessment on the match....

I agree on the ref waving off the TD at the end of first OT.

I also agree with your assessment on the interpretation of stalemate and then stalling in UTB.    I wasn't sure if the ref should even have called the first stalemate since a stalling warning was already given in the 30 second OT.  But, if you want to give 1 stalemate in UTB, I could see that (although, about 10 seconds ticked off the clock without the defensive wrestler being returned to the mat...that seemed too long).  But when you call the second stalemate after a wrestler is grabbing one ankle and being dragged around the mat like a mop, that has to then be a stalling.

I wasn't aware a match could be appealed after the fact.  Is that something you can do in NY?

 The match took place at Detroit Catholic Central in Michigan.  The refs always seem to give them the hometown calls; I guess the lord does work in mysterious ways  :D

Better to die of thirst than drink from the cup of mediocrity

Offline matref0

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Re: Was this match called correctly?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2019, 01:11:27 PM »
The New York interpretation or appeal process has no bearing in this clip obviously, however, I believe most states will interpret the ultimate tiebreaker similarly.  I would say, some of the coaches, especially the maroon coaches, should be hit with unsportsmanlike conduct for being in the middle of the mat.

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Was this match called correctly?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 04:27:52 PM »
In New York State....you can appeal a match at Sectionals, State Qualifier, and States [not during regular season].

I have never been involved in an appeal but I believe the process works like this....

at Sectionals or State Qualifier....Coach takes the ref to the table. The coach can appeal if it's NOT a judgment call, has to be an application of a rule [like this example above].

Match would be PAUSED. There is an order of refs for the tournament.....The top 3 refs on the list that are available will come to the table. Those 3 refs will hear from the ref and then the coach. The three refs will discuss in private and make a decision.

If an appeal occurs at states, I believe the state interpreter would replace the "3 refs" and make a final decision based on the information he obtained from the coach and ref (s).

The appeal has to be made IMMEDIATELY after the controversial call.