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Offline AKHvywght

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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 09:27:36 am »
I'm a large weasel like creature on a wrestling mat.  You can't control these ties, because I'm as loose as a wet noodle.  Slinking this way and that, occasionally darting at your legs only to vanish as your chin hits Mr. Resilite.  

I'm proficient at a lot of tie positions.  I love to use an outside elbow tie to an outside single.  Always passing elbows in one of several ways.  I love a no tie situation, my timing shots are high percentage and my sneaky duck under is my favorite way to take people down.  Competing against people who can wrestle at my level I'll just pull on your head until you stand up...I don't care if it takes me and hour, your neck and your back will hurt, and I will get an easy high single, or a front headlock.

Also, If I'm attacking your right side, you think I'm going to attack your left, and vise versa.  My signature is to set up one side and attack the other.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by AKHvywght »

Offline Viratas

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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 09:37:22 am »
Quote from: "ER Coach"
The primary concern I have with any tie up is head position.  I've allways let my guys know that if they can see down their opponents back from a tie up, they're in poor position and are soon to have their head removed from their neck.  Keep pressure with the forhead and keep your elbow centered on their sternum with a good grip around the neck.  Constant work to the inside while steering them for your setup.  If you can't create what you want, break the tie and reset for something else.

With arms and wrist control, keep the fight between him and your legs until you have the control you want for your setup.
Er I hear you but I think the head position can issue can be erased if kids learn to change levels properly. Often you see kids so focused on head position and getting it that they forget all the rest. IMO
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Viratas »
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
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"College has become a cruel, expensive joke on the poor and the middle class, that benefits only the perpetrator of it." - Peter Gregory

Offline ER Coach

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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 09:47:23 am »
Agreed V.  I don't mean that I stress the head as the primary tool while tied up, rather that a good tie up starts with good head position.  Similar to a good base needs good hip position or a good stance isn't flat footed.  The initial concern to me on a tie is getting yourself positioned well so you're ready and able to use it when the opportunity presents itself or, better yet, you create the opportunity.

As for changing level, IMHO the most important fundimental on your feet and on the mat.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by ER Coach »
When you feel it's time to bury your guns.......It's time to dig them up.

Offline Viratas

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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 11:50:50 am »
Quote from: "ER Coach"
Agreed V.  I don't mean that I stress the head as the primary tool while tied up, rather that a good tie up starts with good head position.  Similar to a good base needs good hip position or a good stance isn't flat footed.  The initial concern to me on a tie is getting yourself positioned well so you're ready and able to use it when the opportunity presents itself or, better yet, you create the opportunity.

As for changing level, IMHO the most important fundimental on your feet and on the mat.
I hear you on that. Also, learning a series. Kids are hit with some many moves and from different styles of coaches, that IMO they lose focus. Its hard but as a coach each wrestlers needs to figure their style and what works for them and build off that. Create a series of option/moves that fit their style and comfort level.

Its hard, Once I started working with Morgan in College I developed a series that IMO was as solid as I could get, I had a plan and options. On my feet I know this sounds funny, but Ness uses the exact same series I did (less the russian plan B).

I can see that marty worked with him alot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Viratas »
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"College has become a cruel, expensive joke on the poor and the middle class, that benefits only the perpetrator of it." - Peter Gregory

Offline drmuscle

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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 12:08:51 pm »
Tell me what constitutes good head position. More specifically where do you tell your kids to apply the pressure with their head.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by drmuscle »
From professing themselves to be wise they became fools.

Offline Viratas

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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 12:15:14 pm »
Quote from: "drmuscle"
Tell me what constitutes good head position.
Depends on the tie etc.. Forehead to forehead or forehead in their face. is good for non inside ties.

For under hooks and russians you need or should have inside, but your series as I call it should have offensive attacks if you head is inside or not. Remember take what they give you....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Viratas »
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"College has become a cruel, expensive joke on the poor and the middle class, that benefits only the perpetrator of it." - Peter Gregory

Offline ER Coach

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« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2009, 12:16:06 pm »
IMO, contact with the forhead rather than the ear or side of the head.  Your forhead on the side of their head, at their forhead, or even on their shoulder is better than having your face on their shoulder or ear to ear. Chin slightly tucked, so you can drop your head under a throw attempt.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by ER Coach »
When you feel it's time to bury your guns.......It's time to dig them up.

Offline Viratas

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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 12:18:30 pm »
Quote from: "ER Coach"
IMO, contact with the forhead rather than the ear or side of the head.  Your forhead on the side of their head, at their forhead, or even on their shoulder is better than having your face on their shoulder or ear to ear. Chin slightly tucked, so you can drop your head under a throw attempt.
Agreed, but it all depends on how you wrestle, I never cared much where my head was, as I had a plan to attack depending on what the guy gave me. So each guy is a bit different,

ER hit the basics though and its great advice... I used to leave my head up high to bait the headlockers.. Especially in folk style, that was an easy two points.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Viratas »
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"College has become a cruel, expensive joke on the poor and the middle class, that benefits only the perpetrator of it." - Peter Gregory

Offline ER Coach

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« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2009, 12:21:01 pm »
I tend to have my forhead on their shoulder more than I should, but I'm comfortable there and I like to hit duck unders so it puts me where I can pop their elbow up, tuck my chin down, accordian at the waist and knees and step forward and around them while throwing my head back into the back of their armpit .  It also allows me to slip under a head-n-arm.  If I can't get there, I'll stay forhead to forhead, or push off and skip the tie up and work on their wrists.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by ER Coach »
When you feel it's time to bury your guns.......It's time to dig them up.

Offline Viratas

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« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2009, 12:22:36 pm »
Good strategy
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Viratas »
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"College has become a cruel, expensive joke on the poor and the middle class, that benefits only the perpetrator of it." - Peter Gregory

Offline drmuscle

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« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2009, 12:30:33 pm »
Quote from: "ER Coach"
I tend to have my forhead on their shoulder more than I should, but I'm comfortable there and I like to hit duck unders so it puts me where I can pop their elbow up, tuck my chin down, accordian at the waist and knees and step forward and around them while throwing my head back into the back of their armpit .  It also allows me to slip under a head-n-arm.  If I can't get there, I'll stay forhead to forhead, or push off and skip the tie up and work on their wrists.
What you describe here is exactly what I do, however I never really thought it through. There have only been a few times in my life I have wrestled a taller wrestler, so I kept my head right in their peck, or shoulder. The guys who give me trouble are the ones who are good at pulling a front hear from the feet.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by drmuscle »
From professing themselves to be wise they became fools.

Offline ER Coach

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« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2009, 12:45:49 pm »
There have only been a few times in my life I have wrestled a taller wrestler,

Yeah, that's not one I can claim.......I'm not quite height challenged, but pretty close.

I have been yanked into a front headlock on occasion by not keeping pressure against the shoulder with my head.  If I'm keeping good pressure and my elbow is in the center of their chest it's not going to happen for them though.  Staying fluid through the body so you can step forward with the yank and not let your upper body get too far in front of your hips helps too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by ER Coach »
When you feel it's time to bury your guns.......It's time to dig them up.

Offline Indiana Wrestler

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« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2009, 03:07:09 am »
I prefered head and wrist control, working an underhook on one side. I was great at ducks and picks, used them all the time
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Indiana Wrestler »

Offline Rockhard

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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2009, 02:52:39 am »
I was all short offense because I knew if they tied up with me, shortly thereafter, they would be tossed to their back. Nothing feels better than tossing someone from their feet to their back.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Rockhard »
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Offline Indiana Wrestler

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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2009, 01:09:58 am »
I loved wrestling short guys. I dont think I ever lost to anyone shorter than I. So easy to pick, tilt, etc
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Indiana Wrestler »