The Open Mat Forum

Miscellaneous => Polls => Topic started by: Cougar1 on July 12, 2010, 01:21:00 PM

Title: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 12, 2010, 01:21:00 PM
Here's an article on the protest: http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_29079.php (http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_29079.php)

Please respomd to the question and explain your answer.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Viratas on July 12, 2010, 01:25:14 PM
I honestly do not care, I see no legal reason as to why it can not be.

I amy not like the idea etc... but as long its done the correct way, I see no reason why or how it could be denied.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: buck on July 12, 2010, 01:52:32 PM
Build it , then bomb it.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 12, 2010, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: "Viratas"
I honestly do not care, I see no legal reason as to why it can not be.

I amy not like the idea etc... but as long its done the correct way, I see no reason why or how it could be denied.

Pig Latin??  :lol:
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: StephanVonVesthell on July 14, 2010, 01:19:37 AM
I don't understand why it would ever be not allowed.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ctc on July 14, 2010, 03:10:23 PM
I voted "no".  Islam is responsible for the terrorist attack and Islam is attempting to rule the world including the USA.  Once they have the numbers and the power, they will force in one way or another, including physical means, and adherence to their belief system.  The day is coming.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: coachsparky on July 15, 2010, 08:56:15 AM
Of course it should be allowed to be built.  This is America, it is a free country and religion cannot in our pluralistic society be used to deny the right to purchase and build on a property that is not in the public domain.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 15, 2010, 01:08:02 PM
So by your own logic it should be perfectly acceptable to build a meeting hall for the KKK next to this building...

(http://http://i27.tinypic.com/25g4ebl.jpg)
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: coachsparky on July 15, 2010, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: "Cougar1"
So by your own logic it should be perfectly acceptable to build a meeting hall for the KKK next to this building...

(http://http://i27.tinypic.com/25g4ebl.jpg)

I did not realize the KKK was a religion.  I thought they were a hate group whose expressed purpose is to cleanse the US of all free Negros and Jews as well?  don't think they care much for papist (that is Catholics for you from Rio Linda). Have they changed the position?
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: AKIN on July 15, 2010, 02:14:05 PM
So you are saying they should not be able to build there? Why not? How about building a Nazi memorial next to the Holocaust museum? Not whether it is in good taste, but whether it is legal.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: coachsparky on July 15, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: "AKIN"
So you are saying they should not be able to build there? Why not? How about building a Nazi memorial next to the Holocaust museum? Not whether it is in good taste, but whether it is legal.

A NAZI Museum, commemerating all the attrocities and crimes against humanity that they commited in addition to the Holocaust would be very fitting next to the Holocaust Museum.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 15, 2010, 02:54:59 PM
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "Cougar1"
So by your own logic it should be perfectly acceptable to build a meeting hall for the KKK next to this building...

(http://http://i27.tinypic.com/25g4ebl.jpg)

I did not realize the KKK was a religion.  I thought they were a hate group whose expressed purpose is to cleanse the US of all free Negros and Jews as well?  don't think they care much for papist (that is Catholics for you from Rio Linda). Have they changed the position?

Some people think of Islam as a religion of hatred, misogyny and violence. I happen to share that view.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 15, 2010, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "AKIN"
So you are saying they should not be able to build there? Why not? How about building a Nazi memorial next to the Holocaust museum? Not whether it is in good taste, but whether it is legal.

A NAZI Museum, commemerating all the attrocities and crimes against humanity that they commited in addition to the Holocaust would be very fitting next to the Holocaust Museum.

Unlike the Nazi Museum as you are suggesting it is highly unlikely that the Mosque will be providing insight into the murderous rampages committed across the globe in the name of Islam.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ViseGrip on July 15, 2010, 03:04:56 PM
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Here's an article on the protest: http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_29079.php (http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_29079.php)

Please respomd to the question and explain your answer.

If they are the title holders and the zoning allows for churches etc. It should be allowed.

That does NOT mean I think its a good idea for the Muslims to put it there. To me this is their way of using our freedoms to antagonize them.

If I was a cop... and I saw someone throw a rock through the mosque window, and the perp ran when I investigated.... I wouldnt spend too much energy chasing him.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ViseGrip on July 15, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
Quote from: "StephanVonVesthell"
I don't understand why it would ever be not allowed.
There may be zoning restrictions against religious buildings there.

Or there may be a requirement to get approval by a planning commission. If for instance part of the approval criteria that the commission must examine includes phrases such as, "will the proposed construction be harmonious with surround improvements?" (for instance allowing them to deny a permit to a porn shop that is next to a school) or "is the proposed construction likely to cause public outrage or disorder?", then the commission may legally use their discretion to deny the application. The muslims would then begin the appeals process that would most likely go to a higher authority such as the city council or perhaps a different regulatory commission and after losing there would seek relief from the city or district court.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 15, 2010, 03:14:36 PM
There is actually a lot more to this than is it "legal". In light of the current administrations patronizing of Islam (Eric Holder's gyrations at the Senate hearing where he refused to utter the word) and the stubborn refusal to use the words "Islamic" and "terrorism" in the same sentence is one. Another is that they will have to remove a building of unique Italian architecture to do so. This building, like a very similar one a few blocks awat, should be on the National Historic Registry, however, officials are refusing to grant it that status, which the other bldg has achieved, and you have to wonder if it is not strictly a PC matter. It's not a religious issue to me. It's like throwing gas on a fire. Why would they purposely go out of their way to offend the friends and families of 911?
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ViseGrip on July 15, 2010, 03:17:44 PM
Quote from: "Cougar1"
There is actually a lot more to this than is it "legal". In light of the current administrations patronizing of Islam (Eric Holder's gyrations at the Senate hearing where he refused to utter the word) and the stubborn refusal to use the words "Islamic" and "terrorism" in the same sentence is one. Another is that they will have to remove a building of unique Italian architecture to do so. This building, like a very similar one a few blocks awat, should be on the National Historic Registry, however, officials are refusing to grant it that status, which the other bldg has achieved, and you have to wonder if it is not strictly a PC matter. It's not a religious issue to me. It's like throwing gas on a fire. Why would they purposely go out of their way to offend the friends and families of 911?
The same reason they were killed in the first place.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: coachsparky on July 15, 2010, 03:18:19 PM
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "Cougar1"
So by your own logic it should be perfectly acceptable to build a meeting hall for the KKK next to this building...

(http://http://i27.tinypic.com/25g4ebl.jpg)

I did not realize the KKK was a religion.  I thought they were a hate group whose expressed purpose is to cleanse the US of all free Negros and Jews as well?  don't think they care much for papist (that is Catholics for you from Rio Linda). Have they changed the position?

Some people think of Islam as a religion of hatred, misogyny and violence. I happen to share that view.

There is a faction of Islam that is like that and then there is the rest of the religion.  Just like their are factions of Christianity that promote hatred and bigotry and then there are factions that do not.  The one wanting to build the mosque is promoting the rational Muslim faction.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: coachsparky on July 15, 2010, 03:20:14 PM
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "StephanVonVesthell"
I don't understand why it would ever be not allowed.
There may be zoning restrictions against religious buildings there.

Or there may be a requirement to get approval by a planning commission. If for instance part of the approval criteria that the commission must examine includes phrases such as, "will the proposed construction be harmonious with surround improvements?" (for instance allowing them to deny a permit to a porn shop that is next to a school) or "is the proposed construction likely to cause public outrage or disorder?", then the commission may legally use their discretion to deny the application. The muslims would then begin the appeals process that would most likely go to a higher authority such as the city council or perhaps a different regulatory commission and after losing there would seek relief from the city or district court.

They already use the existing building as a place of worship and Muslim community activities.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: coachsparky on July 15, 2010, 03:21:58 PM
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "AKIN"
So you are saying they should not be able to build there? Why not? How about building a Nazi memorial next to the Holocaust museum? Not whether it is in good taste, but whether it is legal.

A NAZI Museum, commemerating all the attrocities and crimes against humanity that they commited in addition to the Holocaust would be very fitting next to the Holocaust Museum.

Unlike the Nazi Museum as you are suggesting it is highly unlikely that the Mosque will be providing insight into the murderous rampages committed across the globe in the name of Islam.

Nor should it, it is a place of worship and community activities to promote the more moderate view of Muslims of peace and brotherhood.  Very positive messages in my opinion.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: sgallan on July 16, 2010, 03:55:34 PM
I voted I don't care. I don't live in NYC. But, if it is legal to build it then it is.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: RYou on July 16, 2010, 09:42:24 PM
This is a joke isn't it. Obviously most of you aren't aware that one of key players in the 1993 Trade Center bombing was Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a Muslim Cleric of theology and the Quran, and his followers.  Abdel-Rahman was a life long terrorist operating under the guise of the clergy. The FBI recorded Rahman issuing a fatwa encouraging acts of violence against US civilian targets, particularly in the New York and New Jersey metropolitan area.

If you think this is going to be a place of worship and community activities you are sadly mistaken.  The only thing they'll be worshiping here are the terrorists that attacked the WTC .... twice.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: sgallan on July 17, 2010, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: "RYou"
This is a joke isn't it. Obviously most of you aren't aware that one of key players in the 1993 Trade Center bombing was Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a Muslim Cleric of theology and the Quran, and his followers.  Abdel-Rahman was a life long terrorist operating under the guise of the clergy. The FBI recorded Rahman issuing a fatwa encouraging acts of violence against US civilian targets, particularly in the New York and New Jersey metropolitan area.

If you think this is going to be a place of worship and community activities you are sadly mistaken.  The only thing they'll be worshiping here are the terrorists that attacked the WTC .... twice.

If what he wants is deemed illegal then it won't go. However, we have this pesky little document called the Constitution.... we sort of have to follow it.... without it folks like this have already won.  If what he is doing can't pass Constitutional muster; fine. But if it can; do we just throw out the Constitution?
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Drooke on July 17, 2010, 12:28:54 AM
Quote from: "buck"
Build it , then bomb it.

I will admit...I lol'd!
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: RYou on July 17, 2010, 06:48:55 AM
"The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end" - Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf - developer of the new mosque.  He already has his mosque 12 blocks from the WTC. Let him live with it. He refuses to acknowledge that extreme Muslin terrorists carried out the 9-11 attacks.  Where is the funding coming from?  No US bank will advance $100 Mil for such a risky venture.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ctc on July 17, 2010, 08:06:19 AM
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: sgallan on July 17, 2010, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: "ctc"
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.

Why would I care about what the rest of the world thinks?
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: coachsparky on July 17, 2010, 10:27:42 AM
Quote from: "sgallan"
Quote from: "ctc"
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.

Why would I care about what the rest of the world thinks?

I don't know why anyone would care what the rest of the world thinks, but I also know that not a single soul would consider the US a laughing stock for doing the "right" thing.

You sgallan, most these guys don't give a rat's a$$ how much they trample on the constitution.  I was listening to the radio on the way home from work and heard Juan Williams debating this with Mary Matlin.  He stood strong that we must allow it because we cannot deny it in any constitutional way and Mary Matlin basically said screw the constitution we need to protect our country.  What a line a BS she had.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: sgallan on July 17, 2010, 11:05:08 AM
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "sgallan"
Quote from: "ctc"
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.

Why would I care about what the rest of the world thinks?

I don't know why anyone would care what the rest of the world thinks, but I also know that not a single soul would consider the US a laughing stock for doing the "right" thing.

You sgallan, most these guys don't give a rat's a$$ how much they trample on the constitution.  I was listening to the radio on the way home from work and heard Juan Williams debating this with Mary Matlin.  He stood strong that we must allow it because we cannot deny it in any constitutional way and Mary Matlin basically said screw the constitution we need to protect our country.  What a line a BS she had.

The nice thing about our Constitution, and it's system of checks and balances, is it keeps the more radical parts of our society, or the more panicky "see boogeyman at every corner" folks, from actually having their way.

Odd thing is; many of these same people will complain about SCOTUS picks. If they are not fans of the Constitution why would they care so much about who is on the court. It's just politics and posturing.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ctc on July 18, 2010, 07:47:10 AM
If the rest of the world doesn't respect us, then they might not smile when we give them all kinds of money that we borrowed from China and all kinds of other help.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 19, 2010, 01:05:39 PM
I made a poor choice of words in my initial question. I think we would all agree that it is Constitutionally acceptable for a mosque to be built anywhere they purchase the property. Is it, however, prudent? This is an interesting take on it from across the pond.

[video:1lrh6zxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4&feature=player_embedded#![/video:1lrh6zxg]
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ViseGrip on July 19, 2010, 07:12:52 PM
It IS legal...it is NOT prudent.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Intensity guru on July 19, 2010, 07:26:14 PM
Who cares about muslims, their goofy buildings, their false prophet or their fake religion? Blardyblarblar akbhar! LOL!
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: Cougar1 on July 19, 2010, 09:54:03 PM
Are you hitting the sauce early tonight IG?? LOL!!
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: sgallan on July 20, 2010, 12:21:23 AM
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
It IS legal...it is NOT prudent.

I agree..... I am heartened to see most of us agree with following the legalities set forth by the Constitution.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: sgallan on July 20, 2010, 12:24:33 AM
Quote from: "Cougar1"
I made a poor choice of words in my initial question. I think we would all agree that it is Constitutionally acceptable for a mosque to be built anywhere they purchase the property. Is it, however, prudent? This is an interesting take on it from across the pond.

[video:3v5s5z8v]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4&feature=player_embedded#![/video:3v5s5z8v]

What Vice said. When push comes to shove if they want it, and can fund it, then it will happen. But that is one Mosque that will be monitored, and I suspect if they even step over the line even a little bit, a constitutionally legal (albeit controversial) means will shut them down.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: RYou on July 25, 2010, 09:39:06 PM
Let'em try build it.  The spyware in the world will be there and it won't be detectable.

If they think they can get his past the mob controlled unions in NYC, they're just plain stupid.  Let them find anyone in a union that will work on the building.  The only way it happens is if the union pulls a labor slowdown and drives the building into immense cost overruns.  If they plan on $100M, it'll cost them $150 M at best.
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: NDKnowledge on October 27, 2010, 10:16:18 PM
I received this as an e-mail forward and thought this was a good place to re-post it.

TOLERANCE:

If the idea of a mosque near Ground Zero is to promote tolerance........

 
  Then I suggest that a gay nightclub be opened next door to the mosque. Two names
proposed for the club are; "The Turban Cowboy" & "You Mecca Me Hot".  A life size
statue of Mohammed will be prominently displayed in front of the bar.  On the
other side should be a butcher shop specializing in pork.  Across the street, a
store that sells and displays ladies lingerie and bikinis on live models.
    After all, this is still America - isn't it ?
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: AKIN on October 28, 2010, 10:16:03 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ViseGrip on October 28, 2010, 01:02:53 PM
Let'em try build it.  The spyware in the world will be there and it won't be detectable.

If they think they can get his past the mob controlled unions in NYC, they're just plain stupid.  Let them find anyone in a union that will work on the building.  The only way it happens is if the union pulls a labor slowdown and drives the building into immense cost overruns.  If they plan on $100M, it'll cost them $150 M at best.
Its nice to know unions are good for something.   ;D
Title: Re: Mosque at ground zero
Post by: ctc on October 31, 2010, 09:09:00 AM
I received this as an e-mail forward and thought this was a good place to re-post it.

TOLERANCE:

If the idea of a mosque near Ground Zero is to promote tolerance........

 
  Then I suggest that a gay nightclub be opened next door to the mosque. Two names
proposed for the club are; "The Turban Cowboy" & "You Mecca Me Hot".  A life size
statue of Mohammed will be prominently displayed in front of the bar.  On the
other side should be a butcher shop specializing in pork.  Across the street, a
store that sells and displays ladies lingerie and bikinis on live models.
    After all, this is still America - isn't it ?
BINGO