The Open Mat Forum

Wrestling => College => Topic started by: Viratas on November 13, 2008, 05:40:26 PM

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Post by: Viratas on November 13, 2008, 05:40:26 PM
Ok guys go at it and vent away
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Post by: Jointdoc55 on November 13, 2008, 05:50:55 PM
Can you give me an idea of what the issue at ASU is?
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Post by: Viratas on November 13, 2008, 05:55:55 PM
Doc

Read through this

<a href='http://thematforumuserblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/asu11.pdf' target='_blank'>http://thematforumuserblog.files.wordpress...08/11/asu11.pdf[/url]
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Post by: Jointdoc55 on November 14, 2008, 08:59:33 AM
Viratas - I read the link.  Sounds like everyone is assuming that the initial post is 100% accurate.  I see that the guy does have a website, and I see an endorsement from someone who professes to be a D1 head coach. The thread was initiated by someone with a post count of 2 - that is, he has something to hide.  I'm just saying how do we know this stuff is really going on?
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Post by: Viratas on November 14, 2008, 09:02:27 AM
Quote from: "Jointdoc55"
Viratas - I read the link.  Sounds like everyone is assuming that the initial post is 100% accurate.  I see that the guy does have a website, and I see an endorsement from someone who professes to be a D1 head coach. The thread was initiated by someone with a post count of 2 - that is, he has something to hide.  I'm just saying how do we know this stuff is really going on?
Thats a good point, I know Denny said he will explain more about this. I think people were angry because the discussion was muted by the Mat.com.

I think some people wanted and open discussion to see like you said if this info is accurate or just some pissed off wrestler, parent etc...

JD Did you get my e-mail?
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Post by: jerbufoon on November 14, 2008, 09:05:08 AM
we need to find adidas to get more info guys
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Post by: Viratas on November 14, 2008, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: "jerbufoon"
we need to find adidas to get more info guys
I agree, his post was to the point
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Post by: Footsweep on November 14, 2008, 01:32:29 PM
This has many similarities to other programs that have been dropped.  An incredibly Incompetent/corrupt coach is hired and the student athletes complain and complain but the administration and the coach shut them up.  

The wrestling community does not want to hear it because they are afraid of the program being dropped.

Program then gets dropped because the coach becomes the reason.

ASU is in trouble if they do not get a good coach.

The same thing happened at Oregon.
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Post by: Viratas on November 14, 2008, 01:46:56 PM
I agree and I am amazed that with all the talent down and around there they can not find a good coach
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Post by: adidas on November 14, 2008, 02:19:57 PM
Hey footsweep your totally right many of us here at ASU beleive that the administration is kind of turning a cold shoulder about the coaches almost as if they are setting us up for failure. Its very frustrating for me and i know alot of people on the team that have recently expressed their frustration to me. For us we just want to get better but it seems like we have to swim through so much vibrational BS that it just makes it hard to improve. We haven't been going over technique almost at all i feel like if i would have stayed with my highschool coaches both of whom didn't wrestle past Junior College i would have improved more. I also wanted to address jointdoc and let him know that everything tigerclaw or tigerclaws said was completely accurate.
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Post by: Viratas on November 14, 2008, 02:26:57 PM
Adidas thanks for sharing and you are welcome to share your thought any and all the time. You have our support
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Post by: SnotRocket on November 14, 2008, 10:05:23 PM
It's frustrating when you reach a point when administrative decisions cause institutions such as colleges to marginalize non-revenue sports which are coveted by a minority percentage of people just because they can.  I tell my education professors (yeah, I'm still in college) about the situations wrestling teams such as Oregon and Fresno State are in and they are constantly surprised at how these stories go against the grain of what Title IX are supposed to accomplish and what is truly being done to meet the criteria set forth.  Then again, when you think about it, this country was founded by statesmen, businessmen and lawyers who were tired of being taxed by a country across an ocean, so the concept that Americans would try to find the route of least  resistance when it comes to litigation is not that far fetched.  America isa country, but it's also a business.  I know this isn't so much a Title IX issue, but underneath all of the hirings of less-than-competent coaches and firings of accomplished, capable wrestling coaches, the "bottom line" may be the root cause of the dischord in the program.  I fear for the future of our beloved sport not just because of people in influential positions, but also because of the inability of these same people to realize that it's not always about the bottom line, it's about the lines in between.  The real victims are the guys who are just trying to wrestle, but unfortunately it's not just about the sport anymore.  Just my two cents.
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Post by: denny on November 14, 2008, 10:29:14 PM
Talked briefly to the A-train. It was soon after his MMA fight. He knocked the guy cold in about 15 seconds. Good for him.

Aaron will do well. He is a solid , legit guy. We are friends. Have been since I first met him at ASU. We connected right away. We think alike on many issues. I plan to text him. Talk..........then with his consent --I will write more about the situation in Tempe. When Thom had the train fired....he instantly lost a stand up guy---who was admired by all of the wrestlers, and most of the fans. Perhaps with the exception of Thommy's family.

Simpson had meant sooo much to that program. Especially to the guys in the upper weights. He was invaluable. He had been a true Sun Devil for most of his life.

What I know for sure, some of which may be common knowledge :

*The wrestling program at ASU is 'wrestling on thin ice'.
*The AD is (IMO) going to take some hits for the hiring/firing process.
Such as, just how in the hell did this Fuentes dude (with those bogus credentials) ever get into that wrestling room as a staff member ?  
*Thom Ortiz is a troubled man. That is my professional 'take.'
*So much of this entire story is being kept in secrecy. That, in some ways is odd. Why ? Well ASU is a state supported school. Most of what goes on at a school like that is (typically) open for the public to oberve. Exceptions usually have to do with the protection of & the innate privacy for the student/athlete. Yet,  most of this (sometimes puzzling saga) seems to be a big sick cover up.
*It is with these notions , and more , that I tell you 'more tooo shall be revealed'.

To be continued. Thanks to you all for allowing me to share.
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Post by: Cougar1 on November 15, 2008, 02:50:22 AM
Quote from: "Viratas"
I agree and I am amazed that with all the talent down and around there they can not find a good coach
Fire the whole staff and get Kevin Jackson in to clean house. Simple solutions to complex problems.
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Post by: Viratas on November 15, 2008, 01:19:26 PM
Denny,

Thanks, I look forward to hearing more on this issue. It really is a sad deal. Liek I stated earlier, all the talent in that area and you would think the could get a coach in there that could make some serious improvements pretty fast.
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Post by: denny on November 15, 2008, 03:45:00 PM
Just now finished texting w/train. Hiking w/his wonderful new fam today.
So , I will talk at him a little later.

Perhaps, at that time , I can write something that is new and improved.

"Sad.
I miss coaching there".......................... train
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Post by: Viratas on November 15, 2008, 03:51:42 PM
I look forward to reading/hearing more
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Post by: denny on November 20, 2008, 04:37:58 PM
I was over there on themat lately. Talkin' about how I feel about having Thom and Al in the room. A pity how they (ASU admin) let go of some real solid coaching talent in the process.

Now--- I am taking some 'hits' for offering up my own opinions on this matter.

Some see this as a defection of sorts on my part.
It is quite the opposite. I love my sport. I love the program up the road at ASU.

I just want to see them get it right. We have had NO AA's for 2 seasons now. Some quality former wrestlers are banned from the wrestling room. Folks like Nick Frost. 2 time Pac-10 champ. And Thom won't let him in the room ...not for any purpose. All he really wants to do is to roll around with some of his buds.

They have been black balled due to speaking about the state of wrestling in the room.

Sad ..........very sad.

I promise that a 'self help guru' for asst coach.... is not the answer. Not in this lifetime.