Author Topic: Anyone find this odd?  (Read 26142 times)

Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2010, 11:55:51 AM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
But he did answer it and you discounted his answer.

Actually just said not true and email me in private. Like I said, if not true then great. However, if even one inkling of its true, well, then we have some issues and people have the right to know these things.
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Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2010, 12:01:58 PM »
Quote from: "AKIN"
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Another rumor I'm hearing is that people at the NWCA are trying to convince people who are starting NUWAY orgs, to not do it in the first place. Why is that? Is USAW pulling the strings on that too?

I believe this is the genesis of Rock's current rant. He is now an outspoken supporter and organizer for NUWAY, and since USAW is a direct competitor for wrestlers, he takes any opportunity to attack the credibility of USAW and anyone associated with them.

USAW's credibility has been shot for years and all by their doing. And when you find out the things that are REALLY going on, you'd have some serious doubts about them too.

Let me ask you AKIN, if you knew there was something wrong with the place of business where you work, would you just sit back and allow them to continue bad business practices because you fear you might be alienated or would you say something? If you choose the first, then you have some problems. And that in lies the problem with our sport, most know there are some very shady things going on and say or do nothing about it, out of fear. That is just plain wrong.
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Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2010, 12:04:44 PM »
Quote from: "Ray Brinzer"
Except the point is, the former isn't a question; it's just (in all likelihood) a lie.  If you don't mind others telling disparaging lies about you, that's remarkable, but don't be surprised if others mind it when you do it, particularly in a public place where the people in question aren't present.

And if it turns out to be wrong, which it sounds like it is, then great. However, not asking the questions or making the statements, shouldn't be an option and people shouldn't be bullied into thinking otherwise.
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Offline ptoc-nwca

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2010, 12:12:49 PM »
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "Viratas"
But he did answer it and you discounted his answer.

Actually just said not true and email me in private. Like I said, if not true then great. However, if even one inkling of its true, well, then we have some issues and people have the right to know these things.

Rock..I answered you I think four times that it is not true and it is false.  You are basically calling me a liar.  I do not appreciate it.

Let me clarify a few things:

1. USAW DOES NOT fund the NWCA

2. Dan Mayo works out of Princeton, NJ and not State College, PA

3. Dan is not the regional training center coach for Penn State

4. Donations that are earmarked for certain projects such as Save Cal Davis MUST be spent on Cal Davis initiatives.

5. The NWCA BOD is made up college coaches, scholastic coaches and several business people. USAW, NFHS, NWHOF and NCAA all have one seat each on our board.

There you go.

Thanks,

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2010, 12:15:15 PM »
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "Ray Brinzer"
Except the point is, the former isn't a question; it's just (in all likelihood) a lie.  If you don't mind others telling disparaging lies about you, that's remarkable, but don't be surprised if others mind it when you do it, particularly in a public place where the people in question aren't present.

And if it turns out to be wrong, which it sounds like it is, then great. However, not asking the questions or making the statements, shouldn't be an option and people shouldn't be bullied into thinking otherwise.
For many people, saying what is true matters, because people might actually believe us.  That's why you don't present things as fact unless you know them to be true... particularly when these things are also allegations.  If others need to read what you write with the understanding that it shouldn't be taken seriously, you lack what you complain USA Wrestling lacks:  credibility.

Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2010, 12:17:39 PM »
Quote from: "ptoc-nwca"
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "Viratas"
But he did answer it and you discounted his answer.

Actually just said not true and email me in private. Like I said, if not true then great. However, if even one inkling of its true, well, then we have some issues and people have the right to know these things.

Rock..I answered you I think four times that it is not true and it is false.  You are basically calling me a liar.  I do not appreciate it.

Let me clarify a few things:

1. USAW DOES NOT fund the NWCA

2. Dan Mayo works out of Princeton, NJ and not State College, PA

3. Dan is not the regional training center coach for Penn State

4. Donations that are earmarked for certain projects such as Save Cal Davis MUST be spent on Cal Davis initiatives.

5. The NWCA BOD is made up college coaches, scholastic coaches and several business people. USAW, NFHS, NWHOF and NCAA all have one seat each on our board.

There you go.

Thanks,

Thanks for the breakdown. Its appreciated. Your statement will help to squash the rumors.

Now, why does someone from USAW sit on your board if you are a collegiate organization? Seems like a conflict of interest.
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Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2010, 12:20:29 PM »
Quote from: "Ray Brinzer"
For many people, saying what is true matters, because people might actually believe us.  That's why you don't present things as fact unless you know them to be true... particularly when these things are also allegations.  If others need to read what you write with the understanding that it shouldn't be taken seriously, you lack what you complain USA Wrestling lacks:  credibility.

I agree the truth does matter for many people. Just doesn't matter to certain people in certain positions, especially if they have something to hide.
"Really? Well please tell your father-in-law that he is a freaking idiot."

Offline fuhr

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2010, 12:24:34 PM »
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "ptoc-nwca"
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "Viratas"
But he did answer it and you discounted his answer.



Now, why does someone from USAW sit on your board if you are a collegiate organization? Seems like a conflict of interest.


What do you see happening with what you see as a conflict of interest?
Since Jammen has told me twice to change my signature, I can only assume his wrestling knowledge is no longer something I can count on along with pizza and beer.

Offline Viratas

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2010, 12:25:43 PM »
Not sure how the National Governing Body having a seat on a board could be a conflict of interest either.
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

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Offline AKIN

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2010, 12:30:43 PM »
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Let me ask you AKIN, if you knew there was something wrong with the place of business where you work, would you just sit back and allow them to continue bad business practices because you fear you might be alienated or would you say something? If you choose the first, then you have some problems. And that in lies the problem with our sport, most know there are some very shady things going on and say or do nothing about it, out of fear. That is just plain wrong.

Well I certainly would not cut and run to start on opposing organization that dilutes the competition pool in my state. I would work within the org. I have issues with to change them. That's what happened down here and things are starting to really turn around from where we were. Did we throw up our hands and say "sorry, we can't do anything to change what's wrong"? Did we go to NUWAY or AAU and say we want to start our own deal? No, good people stepped up and made the choice to fight the issues and vote out the bad apples and get our state moving back in the right direction. Most of the time it is tougher to stay and fight than to run away from it, but it is better in my opinion to have one strong org. in a state rather than multiple orgs. fighting each other for wrestlers. It is not fair to those wrestlers to have to choose where to go. You have decided to cut and run, and that is your prerogative, but I think you are doing yourself a dis-service to continue to attack competing orgs. At least that is my opinion.
Imagine the good that could be done, if people were less worried about their differences, and more worried about doing good for everyone.

Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2010, 12:43:00 PM »
Quote from: "AKIN"
Well I certainly would not cut and run to start on opposing organization that dilutes the competition pool in my state. I would work within the org. I have issues with to change them. That's what happened down here and things are starting to really turn around from where we were. Did we throw up our hands and say "sorry, we can't do anything to change what's wrong"? Did we go to NUWAY or AAU and say we want to start our own deal? No, good people stepped up and made the choice to fight the issues and vote out the bad apples and get our state moving back in the right direction. Most of the time it is tougher to stay and fight than to run away from it, but it is better in my opinion to have one strong org. in a state rather than multiple orgs. fighting each other for wrestlers. It is not fair to those wrestlers to have to choose where to go. You have decided to cut and run, and that is your prerogative, but I think you are doing yourself a dis-service to continue to attack competing orgs. At least that is my opinion.

I worked for 7 yrs trying to create change within an organization that refused to change. I would hardly call that cutting and running as you suggest. USAW chased off all the good people.

The way I see it, USAW can run all the FR/GR they want. They could care less about the development of folk wrestling in this country. I believe it was in 1996 when USAW told all state orgs to start running folk events in order to bring in revenue because they were losing money to guys like Roller. Don't think for one second they started Folkstyle Nationals for the sake of wrestling. It was nothing more than a revenue generator and still is. Yet, all the while they've done nothing to help folk wrestling. So, to me, your comments should actually be reversed. It was USAW who felt they needed to fight for wrestlers because it was a losing battle with folkstyle and still is.

The way I see it, if USAW is so important, then FR/GR wrestling would be growing, but it simply isn't the case. And for all you capitalists out there, letting them die off is a good thing.
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Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2010, 12:45:48 PM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
Not sure how the National Governing Body having a seat on a board could be a conflict of interest either.

USAW's goal is to build FR/GR wrestling only. The NWCA is about building folkstyle programs. Its a conflict because they simply don't care about building folkstyle. IMO folkstyle-minded only people should be on the board if that is truely their goal.
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Offline fuhr

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2010, 12:49:31 PM »
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "Viratas"
Not sure how the National Governing Body having a seat on a board could be a conflict of interest either.

USAW's goal is to build FR/GR wrestling only. The NWCA is about building folkstyle programs. Its a conflict because they simply don't care about building folkstyle. IMO folkstyle-minded only people should be on the board if that is truely their goal.

So does this really boils down to you liking folkstyle and not free or greco?  Seems to me if we want to be competitive on the international scene we need more exposure to those styles, not less.
Since Jammen has told me twice to change my signature, I can only assume his wrestling knowledge is no longer something I can count on along with pizza and beer.

Offline Viratas

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2010, 12:51:08 PM »
"USA Wrestling is the National Governing Body for the Sport of Wrestling in the United States and, as such, is its representative to the United States Olympic Committee. Simply, USA Wrestling is the central organization that coordinates amateur wrestling programs in the nation and works to create interest and participation in these programs."

"USA Wrestling has more than 162,000 members. These members include athletes of all ages, coaches, officials, parents and fans striving together to strengthen the sport. Part of USA Wrestling's mission is to foster grassroots development for the sport."

It does not say that it is only for Freestyle and Greco by the way.

NWCA

"The National Wrestling Coaches Association, established in 1928, is a professional organization dedicated to serve and provide leadership for the advancement of all levels of the sport of wrestling with primary emphasis on scholastic and collegiate wrestling programs. The membership embraces all people who are interested in amateur wrestling.

The NWCA, through its organizational structure, promotes communication, recognition achievement, recommends rules and regulations, sponsors events and serves as an educational and informational source. Additionally, the NWCA strives to foster the sportsmanship and integrity that are the cornerstones of athletic competition."

Sorry the appear to share something in common and I do not see how the 2 missions are in conflict
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

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Offline Rockhard

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Re: Anyone find this odd?
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2010, 12:52:10 PM »
Quote from: "fuhr"
Quote from: "Rockhard"
Quote from: "Viratas"
Not sure how the National Governing Body having a seat on a board could be a conflict of interest either.

USAW's goal is to build FR/GR wrestling only. The NWCA is about building folkstyle programs. Its a conflict because they simply don't care about building folkstyle. IMO folkstyle-minded only people should be on the board if that is truely their goal.

So does this really boils down to you liking folkstyle and not free or greco?  Seems to me if we want to be competitive on the international scene we need more exposure to those styles, not less.

No, I didn't say that. Just saying that if your goal is to build folkstyle only, then you should surround yourself with folkstyle only people. Same would go for a USAW board. It needs to have FR/GR only people on that board. Its counter-productive IMO.
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