Poll

Should a mosque be allowed to be built at ground zero?

Yes
6 (37.5%)
No
6 (37.5%)
It depends
1 (6.3%)
I don\'t care
3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: July 12, 2010, 01:21:00 PM

Author Topic: Mosque at ground zero  (Read 5501 times)

Offline Cougar1

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 03:14:36 PM »
There is actually a lot more to this than is it "legal". In light of the current administrations patronizing of Islam (Eric Holder's gyrations at the Senate hearing where he refused to utter the word) and the stubborn refusal to use the words "Islamic" and "terrorism" in the same sentence is one. Another is that they will have to remove a building of unique Italian architecture to do so. This building, like a very similar one a few blocks awat, should be on the National Historic Registry, however, officials are refusing to grant it that status, which the other bldg has achieved, and you have to wonder if it is not strictly a PC matter. It's not a religious issue to me. It's like throwing gas on a fire. Why would they purposely go out of their way to offend the friends and families of 911?
“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.”

― G.K. Chesterton

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2010, 03:17:44 PM »
Quote from: "Cougar1"
There is actually a lot more to this than is it "legal". In light of the current administrations patronizing of Islam (Eric Holder's gyrations at the Senate hearing where he refused to utter the word) and the stubborn refusal to use the words "Islamic" and "terrorism" in the same sentence is one. Another is that they will have to remove a building of unique Italian architecture to do so. This building, like a very similar one a few blocks awat, should be on the National Historic Registry, however, officials are refusing to grant it that status, which the other bldg has achieved, and you have to wonder if it is not strictly a PC matter. It's not a religious issue to me. It's like throwing gas on a fire. Why would they purposely go out of their way to offend the friends and families of 911?
The same reason they were killed in the first place.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2010, 03:18:19 PM »
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "Cougar1"
So by your own logic it should be perfectly acceptable to build a meeting hall for the KKK next to this building...


I did not realize the KKK was a religion.  I thought they were a hate group whose expressed purpose is to cleanse the US of all free Negros and Jews as well?  don't think they care much for papist (that is Catholics for you from Rio Linda). Have they changed the position?

Some people think of Islam as a religion of hatred, misogyny and violence. I happen to share that view.

There is a faction of Islam that is like that and then there is the rest of the religion.  Just like their are factions of Christianity that promote hatred and bigotry and then there are factions that do not.  The one wanting to build the mosque is promoting the rational Muslim faction.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2010, 03:20:14 PM »
Quote from: "ViseGrip"
Quote from: "StephanVonVesthell"
I don't understand why it would ever be not allowed.
There may be zoning restrictions against religious buildings there.

Or there may be a requirement to get approval by a planning commission. If for instance part of the approval criteria that the commission must examine includes phrases such as, "will the proposed construction be harmonious with surround improvements?" (for instance allowing them to deny a permit to a porn shop that is next to a school) or "is the proposed construction likely to cause public outrage or disorder?", then the commission may legally use their discretion to deny the application. The muslims would then begin the appeals process that would most likely go to a higher authority such as the city council or perhaps a different regulatory commission and after losing there would seek relief from the city or district court.

They already use the existing building as a place of worship and Muslim community activities.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 03:21:58 PM »
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "AKIN"
So you are saying they should not be able to build there? Why not? How about building a Nazi memorial next to the Holocaust museum? Not whether it is in good taste, but whether it is legal.

A NAZI Museum, commemerating all the attrocities and crimes against humanity that they commited in addition to the Holocaust would be very fitting next to the Holocaust Museum.

Unlike the Nazi Museum as you are suggesting it is highly unlikely that the Mosque will be providing insight into the murderous rampages committed across the globe in the name of Islam.

Nor should it, it is a place of worship and community activities to promote the more moderate view of Muslims of peace and brotherhood.  Very positive messages in my opinion.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

sgallan

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2010, 03:55:34 PM »
I voted I don't care. I don't live in NYC. But, if it is legal to build it then it is.

RYou

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2010, 09:42:24 PM »
This is a joke isn't it. Obviously most of you aren't aware that one of key players in the 1993 Trade Center bombing was Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a Muslim Cleric of theology and the Quran, and his followers.  Abdel-Rahman was a life long terrorist operating under the guise of the clergy. The FBI recorded Rahman issuing a fatwa encouraging acts of violence against US civilian targets, particularly in the New York and New Jersey metropolitan area.

If you think this is going to be a place of worship and community activities you are sadly mistaken.  The only thing they'll be worshiping here are the terrorists that attacked the WTC .... twice.

sgallan

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2010, 12:17:38 AM »
Quote from: "RYou"
This is a joke isn't it. Obviously most of you aren't aware that one of key players in the 1993 Trade Center bombing was Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a Muslim Cleric of theology and the Quran, and his followers.  Abdel-Rahman was a life long terrorist operating under the guise of the clergy. The FBI recorded Rahman issuing a fatwa encouraging acts of violence against US civilian targets, particularly in the New York and New Jersey metropolitan area.

If you think this is going to be a place of worship and community activities you are sadly mistaken.  The only thing they'll be worshiping here are the terrorists that attacked the WTC .... twice.

If what he wants is deemed illegal then it won't go. However, we have this pesky little document called the Constitution.... we sort of have to follow it.... without it folks like this have already won.  If what he is doing can't pass Constitutional muster; fine. But if it can; do we just throw out the Constitution?

Drooke

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2010, 12:28:54 AM »
Quote from: "buck"
Build it , then bomb it.

I will admit...I lol'd!

RYou

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2010, 06:48:55 AM »
"The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end" - Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf - developer of the new mosque.  He already has his mosque 12 blocks from the WTC. Let him live with it. He refuses to acknowledge that extreme Muslin terrorists carried out the 9-11 attacks.  Where is the funding coming from?  No US bank will advance $100 Mil for such a risky venture.

Offline ctc

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2010, 08:06:19 AM »
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

sgallan

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2010, 09:38:31 AM »
Quote from: "ctc"
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.

Why would I care about what the rest of the world thinks?

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2010, 10:27:42 AM »
Quote from: "sgallan"
Quote from: "ctc"
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.

Why would I care about what the rest of the world thinks?

I don't know why anyone would care what the rest of the world thinks, but I also know that not a single soul would consider the US a laughing stock for doing the "right" thing.

You sgallan, most these guys don't give a rat's a$$ how much they trample on the constitution.  I was listening to the radio on the way home from work and heard Juan Williams debating this with Mary Matlin.  He stood strong that we must allow it because we cannot deny it in any constitutional way and Mary Matlin basically said screw the constitution we need to protect our country.  What a line a BS she had.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

sgallan

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2010, 11:05:08 AM »
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "sgallan"
Quote from: "ctc"
This will be their big trophy and make the US a laughing stock.  The whole world will get to laugh at us for the obvious blunder.

Why would I care about what the rest of the world thinks?

I don't know why anyone would care what the rest of the world thinks, but I also know that not a single soul would consider the US a laughing stock for doing the "right" thing.

You sgallan, most these guys don't give a rat's a$$ how much they trample on the constitution.  I was listening to the radio on the way home from work and heard Juan Williams debating this with Mary Matlin.  He stood strong that we must allow it because we cannot deny it in any constitutional way and Mary Matlin basically said screw the constitution we need to protect our country.  What a line a BS she had.

The nice thing about our Constitution, and it's system of checks and balances, is it keeps the more radical parts of our society, or the more panicky "see boogeyman at every corner" folks, from actually having their way.

Odd thing is; many of these same people will complain about SCOTUS picks. If they are not fans of the Constitution why would they care so much about who is on the court. It's just politics and posturing.

Offline ctc

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Re: Mosque at ground zero
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2010, 07:47:10 AM »
If the rest of the world doesn't respect us, then they might not smile when we give them all kinds of money that we borrowed from China and all kinds of other help.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville