.....and we're still waiting

[ronsnap]

How empty would the Pavilion be if the Gopher's didn't make it? How empty would Gallagher-Iba be if there were no Cowboys.

The pavilion wouldn't be empty.  Iowa will be there.  If they are worried about G-IBA not producing fans then it shouldnt be held there.  Hold it in a place where it is guaranteed to be a success.

I'm not saying I'm agreeing with everything that's happened, but I think everyone's being extremely shortsighted when calling everything that happens in wrestling "a joke."

Who said "everything that happens in wrestling (is) a joke."?

So what would you rather have? A few fans uncomfortable about being unable to attend and a few thousand fans to show the NCAA that this is a winner OR a set site like Columbia, Mo. and no Mizzou to draw in the local crowd and you might be lucky to get 500 people?

See my above reply about holding it in a place where you are guaranteed fans.  You wouldn't hold a downhill skiing competition in where there are no skiers, so why hold a wrestling event where there is no support?

Ron, the scheduling is a product of the problem, coaches unwilling to be on the same page for the betterment of the entire sport. Cael's recent interview said he disagreed with several things about it, but instead of just saying he didn't think it was good for his program, he validated that with REAL reasons, rather than the entire scheduling argument. His main point was about going to areas that need assistance in promoting college wrestling. In this case, Utah, where he's from.

And if people think the NWCA is just going to sit on this and not adapt, they're sorely mistaken. The issue is cooperation from their member coaches more than anything else.

The way this is set up and being run it is not better for our sport.  The finals are in a week and a half and nobody knows where it will be held.  In no way shape or form is that good for our sport.  I was told by a prominant OSU writer that the NWCA just wants to break even so it doesnt matter to them that they get a lot of people in the stands.  I don't know if he was trying to justify the reasons to hold it in Stillwater or if it is actually true, but there are places you can hold this and announce it early and still have a very large turnout no matter who is wrestling in it. 

The two weekend idea is horrible for fans.  That's an extra trip you have to make which means twice the money.  I don't know.  Maybe they really don't want fans to show up, it kind of seems like it. 

[buf87]

I agree with many here.  That if it was held in Minnesota, Chicago area, UNI, Omaha, that it would draw a good crowd.  It is most likely going to have Iowa and/or Minnesota in finals and will draw fans to all those locations.  Why does somebody need to have home field advantage to have success?   Omaha would likely draw Okie State, Iowa, Minnesota (that could be 3 of the 4 champs) and no home mat advantage.

[ptoc-nwca]

I am sorry that if some people feel parts of this is a joke and not organized. The information for the regions has been readily available for quite some time. This was not dreamed up over night on a whim. There was the involvement of quite a few people in trying to put this concept in place. The reality is that the national duals in its old format was not going to happen anymore for many reasons. Change had to happen. We were in a situation where we could do nothing for a year or we put this concept in place and work through some of the kinks to it. Obviously, we decided to move ahead with it knowing there would be some challenges and hiccups that we did not think through.

It would be great if we could have selected a final location way in advance and 'hope' that it works out ok. Heck, it would make my life much easier having this in place months ago.  However, there is a some major financial risks and other signifcant factors in hoping that it works out 'ok'. Yes, we should have put out  statement earlier in what was talking place on the finals location. We realize that this will impact some media and fans from attending.  It is a tough balancing act but in year one we have to take a much more consertative approach so there can be the possibilty of a second year. In addition, If you look at many of the NCAA playoff sports, the teams do not know where they will be the next round so this is not unprecedant.

Like anything, we will see what is successful and what did not work this year and improve it for the future.  We hope that you will give the event a chance and support it.

Thanks,

[Cicero]

Under your logic why is Oklahoma State or Missouri even a consideration. Heck the wrestled eachother a week ago at OSU and barely drew 1000 fans. If this is in OSU, they will be lucky to have 3K total IMO.

Slight point of order here, this dual was in Missouri.

OSU's attendance has been down this year, but I think the attendance on Sunday will be pretty decent.  There hasn't been too much to get excited about in the home slate for OSU so far.  The prospect of wrestling two top 10 teams in one day is quite a bit better than wrestling one the rest of the home schedule and only 2 ranked teams period.

They need to do a lot to improve, but I don't think the move to this format should be written off in the first year.  They obviously have a lot to learn from this year, to make it better.  It seems like there are already some changes set to take effect next season that will improve it.

[Viratas]

I am sorry that if some people feel parts of this is a joke and not organized. The information for the regions has been readily available for quite some time. This was not dreamed up over night on a whim. There was the involvement of quite a few people in trying to put this concept in place. The reality is that the national duals in its old format was not going to happen anymore for many reasons. Change had to happen. We were in a situation where we could do nothing for a year or we put this concept in place and work through some of the kinks to it. Obviously, we decided to move ahead with it knowing there would be some challenges and hiccups that we did not think through.

It would be great if we could have selected a final location way in advance and 'hope' that it works out ok. Heck, it would make my life much easier having this in place months ago.  However, there is a some major financial risks and other signifcant factors in hoping that it works out 'ok'. Yes, we should have put out  statement earlier in what was talking place on the finals location. We realize that this will impact some media and fans from attending.  It is a tough balancing act but in year one we have to take a much more consertative approach so there can be the possibilty of a second year. In addition, If you look at many of the NCAA playoff sports, the teams do not know where they will be the next round so this is not unprecedant.

Like anything, we will see what is successful and what did not work this year and improve it for the future.  We hope that you will give the event a chance and support it.

Thanks,

\

Pat,

Thanks for the response and I feel you make a valid case and I for one appreciate your honesty. I agree with you that for this year you have to live and learn. Also, that if it was the only way to have it work this year, something is always better then nothing. I for one do understand that you guys have a lot on your plates.

My biggest concern is that if a lot of fans are put off, it may be harder to draw them back in. But in the end, you have to start somewhere. That is what you guys did. I also think it is fair for people to be soimewhat upset.

Let's say the final four is MN, IA, OSU and Cornell. There are a ton of wrestling fans that would want to see that and attend. The issue for most is that with a weeks notice it makes it tough from a cost perspective. For us who wants to make sure we cover it, there is no way we can afford last second flights, so unless it is in MN I doubt we will have much coverage. I know that really does not matter in the big scope of things, but when we are talking about a sport that needs as much coverage as possible, it can not hurt to have as much media covering it as possible.

Again, I appreciate the fact that you are open and honest with us and not afriad to come on with us jackals and discuss it.

V

[fuhr]

I can imagine your frustration ptoc,


You are trying to do what is best for the event, but I think a lot of fans are attempting to let you know their feelings on how it is being handled.  Calling it a "joke" may be out of line on my part but I can't post on the boards what others are calling it in conversations and text messages that I receive on a daily basis.  There are rules against that kind of language around here.  And that is just the few people I know, a drop in the bucket in terms of numbers of wrestling fans. 


I think something that could have helped was being more proactive in not only promoting the event but getting information out to the fans.  IN the other thread where i used JB's quote from he mentioned people being patient and waiting for more info to come out before judging it.  Where is that info, and if it was available enough that JB thought it sounded like a good idea in private, why not release it and let the fans know what is going on?




Ultimately the fans WANT it to be successful as much as the NWCA does, and everything else is backlash from, what feels like, the ball being dropped.

[brycemus]

it will impact "some fans"?  are you kidding me??!?!?!!?  it's going to impact Every fan!!!  I'm fine with the regions, it's not a bad idea frankly and it's kind of cool.  a great opportunity to see some duals we night not.  and certainly there are fans who will make the regions.  who this really screws are those fans who are unable financially able to take of a weekend on 7 days notice and make all the travel arrangements necessary.  I'm not sure if you know this, but that's probalby Every fan!  you're saying you want us to show our support for Wrestling.  then you have to LET US show that support.

tell me what Average fan is going to be able to do this?  please.  I dare you!  what average fan is capable of deciding to go to the finals on a week notice.  hell what average Media outlet?  if you want this all to yourselves...great.  have fun.  watch what should be a great idea for our sport die. 

you want us to participate and embrace this?  then you have to cut us a break.  no real video coverage at this point outside Rutgers (that we know about).  heck if there is more then maybe that's the type of thing that should be promoted.  hell we'd be promoting the crap out of those feeds on this site I'm sure.  as it is, for me to "tune" in I'm going to rely on the video from cornell and the VOLUNTEER work of V and furh to cover Ames.  no idea what I'm going to do about the other regions.

[buf87]

I think the regions is the best idea.  I would not travel very far out of state to see Iowa State wrestle this year, but I will be in Ames (or if it was in Iowa City, UNI, or Minneapolis) to watch the regionals.   I think the same is true for a lot of the fans, esp outside the top 5.   I also like to wrestle teams that we normally don't see during the season, Oregon State and Wisconsin.  I would not be thrilled to have Iowa, UNI, Minnesota, Iowa State, Missouri all in the same region.  I understand that we have to have some overlap, but Iowa State already wrestles the Big 12 twice, plus Big 12 tourney, I don't want any in National dual regionals. 

A mix of western schools (Wyoming, Boise State, Cal Poly, Oregon State) and Big 10 schools (Illinois, Wisconsin) would be great.  I am excited that Iowa State will see Wisconsin and the hopefully Oregon State (2 teams we haven't and don't normally face) in regionals.

Just my thoughts for the future!

[ronsnap]

Just let us know in advance where it will be held.  Why not have it held at the previous years champions home arena?  All of the backlash could have been avoided with a little communication.  If you're worried about people showing up on the first year of this thing, hold it in Iowa.  You're guaranteed to have fans show up if it's here.  I'm not just saying that as an Iowa fan...It just makes sense.  Holding it somewhere like OSU where they don't support the team is a recipe for failure.

[fulsaasfan]

I do like the format and agree that this can work if all goes well. I just think that the problem has been in execution and communication this year. I know that it's tough the first year but it just doesn't seem like the fan has been brought into this.
I hope that things can get straightened out next year and this can become the success that everyone wants it to be. I am still going to give it a chance but just hope that things get much better.

[buf87]

Without a fan base, it can be ran to perfection and still fail!

Need to go where the fans are.  I bet Iowa State (the weakest regional) will be the most profitable  and largest attended regional!

[ptoc-nwca]

As I have said before, certain information should have been communicated in a more timely manner but with a new event some unitended consequences often arise that delays that information.

I understand where people are coming from on the finals location. We debated countless hours about a site location finals but at the end of the day we had to take a more conserative approach to mitigate the risks (financial and otherwise). I can assure you that placing the event in a wrong location without a local team or an unpopular place for the coaches would sink this event faster than anything.

[brycemus]

I don't see how choosing a neutral site like Chicago, Memphis, St Louis, Oklahom City, freaking ANY population center ahead of time could be bad and force it to fail.  Fans would still have Made their plans ahead of time.  instead we're forced to make a kneejerk reaction to WHATEVER finals site arises.  and That is the Recipe for Failure.

[Cicero]

Pat, what are the video broadcast option for each regional?  For fans who cannot make it, how can they still watch? 

[ronsnap]

Tell John Smith that if he wants to have it in Stillwater then he needs to get more fans to support his team.  I'm sick of hearing him moan about it being in Iowa.  We support our teams and schools within driving distance of us do to.  Financial viability is a moot point if it's held in Ames, Cedar Falls, Iowa City or Des Moines.  Hell, you could have it in Omaha, Minneapolis or even Kansas City and it would still draw fans.  I doubt you'll see much of a figure attendencewise if you have it in Stillwater.  Oklahoma is a football state, unfortunately not many care about wrestling down there anymore, and it is not within reasonable driving distance from the rest of the wrestling world.  You could even hold the event in Pennsylvania, this year, without PSU in it and it would draw a large crowd.  They like their wrestling out there too. 

I want this sport to grow, just like everyone else, but I don't think we need to cater to places that do not support it.  Hold it in areas that do support it by showing up and put it on webcast for the rest of the world to see.  Every once in a while move it out there and see if it works.  That way you make money most of the time and the loyal fans get to see it live.