Author Topic: TRADE ANNOUNCED  (Read 7274 times)

Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 11:50:02 AM »
This isn't a question of whether the trade would be in the best interest of both teams, but what is in the best interest of the league. 

Offline YakRider

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 12:38:47 PM »
well i have my thoughts and could post this and that etc.  but don't really want to get into the multi post debates/arguments that i stay out of.  the rules are posted and we may change from year to year but i doubt there would ever be a league where all 12 + people agree on things.  one additon from another league that allows trades to not be such a prioriitiy is a rule allowing 10 drop/adds throughout the year which are always tradeable.   if one messes up the draft here or a key wrestler gets hurt, thrown off etc   we're pretty much stuck without trading.  just something to consider for next year. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 12:48:52 PM by yakrider »

Offline AKIN

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 01:32:53 PM »
Basically, it is trading 3 wrestlers for 2. Clark is a RS, so how will not have any value to this season. So you basically are trading a #4 for a #4 and a #5 for a #12 and #16. The #4s wash out, so my issue is to determine if the value of the two wrestlers is somewhere close to the value of the #12 and #16. That is where my struggle is with this. If you look at the weights, you have the #5 at 157 for the #12 at 157 and throwing a #16 ranked wrestler in with it. I would like to get some input on this one from some others in the league, before I make a decision.
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Offline YakRider

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 02:01:14 PM »
i wish i would have been asked to give input for others' trades.  i already gave you my thoughts and the conference rankings as has been done multiple times in the past.  what are two conference champs worth if trying to make the ncaa's?  if you would have asked my input would i have been in favor of other's strengthening their teams for march?  also some guys are trending up like evans while others might be trending down like alton.    anyway,  i am submitting a lineup with what i now have as i will be away at a wrestling match tonite.  if the others approve this trade (puhleeeeze) i will adjust.  the rankings skew things and too much weight is given them.  graham is much less a 4 then alton and will not perform as well at iowa as will alton assuming he is back in my opinion.  none the less is this trade improving jc?  yes    is it something i wish to do?  yes   and the reason the rankings and opinions of others are worth more then ours? 

Offline YakRider

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 09:45:03 PM »
i was sitting at the match tonight and thought why we must take someone else opinion for a wrestler's value instead of our own?   3 years ago i took david taylor in the second round coming off redshirt year and ruth a round or so later also coming off redshirt.  i was mocked by a few as they haven't proved anything.  if i had to take other's opinions then what?  if someone said they are unproven you are upsetting the league  the what?  some trades are obviously not right.  oliver for some mac conference guy wrestling .500 but who has the right to tell someone what they should think the value of a wrestler is. maybe a guy might think a guy is rising or peaking and another bottoming out.  should they make sure everyone else is in agreement before doing something?  also, just for the record akin you made a trade involving graham who is now ranked 4 and dellago who depending on the ranking you use is 13-19.  where were they when the trade was made i  don't  remember but that's where they are now .  so was and is that a fair trade? should someone not be allowed to speculate just as was done there/  just venting here as .........   nevermind   enough said.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 09:59:59 PM by yakrider »

Offline AKIN

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 11:00:26 PM »
I am going to deny this trade for the reasons I have already stated.
Imagine the good that could be done, if people were less worried about their differences, and more worried about doing good for everyone.

Offline vaisforlovers

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 06:39:42 AM »
Why would someone have Cory Clark on their team?

Even if you think you're sneaky and want to keep him next year, is he really worth a round 1 pick? 

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Offline YakRider

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 07:20:10 AM »
you stated no reasons. you stated facts you said you didn't understand.   you said i was trading a 5 for a 12, like you did when you traded graham for dellago only i also gave him a 16 too which you did nothing extra.  yours was fair, mine with the extra wrestler was not fair???????   doesn't seem like a fair decision to me.  and you asked the input of others?????   gee wonder why others fighting jc for a playoff spot via conference week don't want this to happen? 

Offline vaisforlovers

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 07:35:05 AM »
Honestly this is a pretty fair trade. 

If it is in the best interest of both players, then the trade is in the leagues best interests. 

Maybe it isnt in Okies best interest, or other guys fighting for the conference spot.  But that shouldnt be the point.

Who are we arguing this trade is too lopsided for anyways?  Just comparing rankings is a silly way to analyze and tells far from the whole story.  If both guys want it, why wont it go through?
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Offline vaisforlovers

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 07:46:51 AM »
well   everyone is entitled to their opinion.   that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.  ya caught me.  was trying to snag clark to keep for next year, thinking ruth and the altons and brown are flashes in the pan.  rats    thought i concealed my plan better then that.   ::)  did i miss an argument going on here?

My question was an honest one.  I didn't realize we had changed that rule.  The sarcastic remark was thrown in because I'm an asshole. 

The larger question that this deal, and ones like it made every year about this time, raises is an important one.  How much should the league allow trades that will help one team make the play-offs, but give the other an advantage come NCAAs?  On the one hand it is a reward for being high enough in the standings to be able to sacrifice points in conference.  On the other hand, it skews the competitive balance of the play-offs and could be seen as unfair by others near the top.  I've been on both sides and there is no easy answer.  Frankly, I think if Akin can't decide he should put it up for a vote of the league.  That is how every Fantasy Football league I've ever been in has decided questionable trades.

Clearly teams that are going to miss the playoffs should make trades with NCAA scoring in mind..

What do you suggest people with bad teams do?  Just ride it out and not make the playoffs?  There is give and take here.   0 logic being applied.

As a team "near the top" it doesnt bother me at all.  Hes built a solid team so he reaps those benefits. 
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Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 08:22:43 AM »
First of all, before anyone misunderstands, I didn't advise Akin either way on this one.  I think its a fair question to ask whether trades like this are ok or not.  If they are then fine, but it warrants discussion.

I am torn on the issue.  On the one hand, yak is correct.  This trade is in the best interest of both teams.

On the other hand, a competitive balance clause, that allows leagues to veto trades that unduly skew the balance of power towards a contender at the expense of a lesser team, is included in every major sports league for a reason.  There is more to consider than the two teams involved.  Should I be allowed to trade Chris Perry for Greg Zannetti straight up?  It would almost certainly give me more points during conference week and give me a better shot to make NCAAs.  However, it would render my chances once I got there almost 0 (ok, really, just 0 my team is awful) and, if I traded Perry to a contender, it could swing the title race.

I am of the view that, in a league such as this where there is no money involved and no "prize" to be won by anyone, that the ultimate title at NCAAs is the only thing that should be considered when looking at competitive balance (why allow someone to play for 2nd or 6th as it stands now).  Raising someone's chances at winning from 0% (not making the play-offs) to 1% is not preserving competitive balance if it enables another team to go from a 20% chance to 50%.  While those numbers are theoretical and I haven't looked at the chances of either of these teams, this trade helps Yak's chances at NCAAs far more than it does JC's, we can all agree with that no matter what you think of the rankings.

Finally, I don't want this to be seen as me campaigning to have the trade vetoed because it hurts my team.  That was never my intent.  So, I officially withdraw any claim I have to the play-offs this year (if Akin and the rest of the league is ok with that).  My team is awful.  Some of it is luck, some of it is my own mismanagement, and some of it was circumstance, but I don't want anyone to think I would be so petty as to campaign against a trade (when I was really just raising a question) in a league that is just for fun, based purely on my own self-interest.  I will still post line-ups, discuss any trade requests, and fulfill my obligations to the league.  I simply wish to prove my intentions here were absolutely pure.

Offline Jerry Callo

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 08:56:41 AM »
I am curious about one thing - who had the unfair advantage in this trade?

YAK who got two top 10 guys, although one Graham, cant score much because he is in a small conference, or

ME because I got 3 guys who can score for two since Clark is RS'ed 

Just curious - and btw - I think if you think Zanetti is #1 in the EIWA - it would be a smart move to trade him for Perry - since Perry is in the same small conference boat as Graham -

I didnt make these rules - I am just trying to live by them and do the best I can within them. 

I'm just saying . . .
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Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 09:04:55 AM »
Just curious - and btw - I think if you think Zanetti is #1 in the EIWA - it would be a smart move to trade him for Perry - since Perry is in the same small conference boat as Graham -

That is the crux of the disagreement.  In no way should the league allow a Perry for Zanetti straight up trade, regardless of my plight.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 09:11:44 AM by OkieSpladle »

Offline yak rider

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 09:11:46 AM »
okie  ya don't have to withdraw from the league.  what the heck.  as you said it's just for fun with no money.  but i disagree with do all things to keep everyone equal etc.  that just smacks of where this society has been headed for years.  everyone is a winner and we need to do everything to make everyone equal.  make sure timmy gets a trophy.  my main issue is why can't people have their own value system and rankings?  as i said before a few years back i took taylor and ruth very early in the draft coming off freshmen redshirts and was mocked by some for buying into the psu hype and that they have proved nothing.  last year i took a couple guys earlier then the masses or other "experts" thought they were ranked.  sometimes it works out sometimes not.  this year i over reached for courts (not working out as well) and brown (we'll see).   again, a trade was made earlier, graham for dellago ?????  that was fair but now the same rankings plus a wrestler is not fair?? 

if a guy is fortunate to have guys he drafted be excess and able to bundle them to help his team at years end, good for him.  good to be lucky,  have the yankees for years bolstered their team by trading minor league prospects for post season play????   some guy's season at this point is to make the ncaa's.  at least that is something to keep him posting lineups and interested rather then say i stink.   i am done.  then there will be a few guys he can root for in march.  will he win?  probably not but it's better then not having any rooting interest from a fantasy standpoint. 

what is disappointing is being told i must take the view and the opinion of others and their ranking system as mine and more so that i am trying to rip someone off when this particular deal is, in my opinion, more fair then others that have went down without me saying a word.  i do not try to rip anyone off.  it's not like i tried to trade an unranked guy from f&m to someone for jordan oliver.

finally jc proposed this trade not me.  i asked for alton early in the year. he didn't want to trade him then.  now that evans is at his proper weight and blossoming he is more attractive.  he asked if i wanted alton.  yes.   how bout evans for alton?  ok  but now i need a 57 lber.  how bout mcculley?  and i need help at 65 and don't need three of em so pick santiago or yohn.  he wanted santiago.  if he would have picked yohn whose "magic ranking number" is in the top ten then everything would have been fine for graham .  also, i am willing to bet right now that graham does not finsih in the top 4 in march at 65.  but he didn't want yohn   duh   and which one will do better at conferences?  i more then see his point.  as far as the comments that i'm trying to be sneaky and keep clark for next year:  really? .  i could care less bout clark.  yeah cut ruth and alton and tons others to keep clark.  that's the ticket.

now it's a non issue as since this has dragged on jc has made other "fair" trades and this one is no longer on the table.  i just feel screwed by this and like i am trying to screw someone else.  i don't even want to get into the issue of having to ask other guys in the league if they think a certain trade is fair or not.   i was never asked about trades or proposal. 

sorry    just needed to vent and don't want to get into a long debate.   
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Offline yak rider

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Re: TRADE ANNOUNCED
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 09:15:53 AM »
That is the crux of the disagreement.  In no way should the league allow a Perry for Zanetti straight up trade, regardless of my plight.


and that is the crux   that the league or those in it need operate under your opinions and ideas and rankings and what you feel is best for all and what your goals and desires are.  some years luck and injuries etc work against you.  but if you want to have a better team (since we don't have drop/adds)  draft better and allow yourself the opportunity to do your best during the year.
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