Author Topic: miller's screw job  (Read 15449 times)

Offline ctc

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 18851
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2015, 04:31:53 PM »
It is 100% on the refs to make sure the score is correct and that's what it says in the rulebook. The NCAA is thinking that since it's wrestling the news won't get out what happened, I personally am on the verge of e-mailing every major sports news source what happened because the NCAA shouldn't be able to get away with something THIS bad
This is incorrect.  It is 100% on the coaches.  The score has to be corrected before the next period begins.  The coaches did not approach the table and demand the scoring be checked.  They could have waved their flag.  They did not.  They did not offer the information that an escape was not awarded.  It is too bad; but, it happens.  This is why coaches need to be on top of what is happening scoring wise.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline head n arm

  • World Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 1636
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2015, 05:02:30 PM »
Actually the coach did approach the table and say the score was wrong. Both referees told him it was correct and to take a seat. The technicality is that he didn't hold up a flag when he questioned it and that is crap. Flo interviewed the coach. The interview is on their site.
"I'm actually worse at picking winners in wrestling than I am MMA, and that is saying something"

Offline ctc

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 18851
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2015, 05:17:45 PM »
Actually the coach did approach the table and say the score was wrong. Both referees told him it was correct and to take a seat. The technicality is that he didn't hold up a flag when he questioned it and that is crap. Flo interviewed the coach. The interview is on their site.
Did they say how it was wrong?
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline FalconWrestlingKY

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 6407
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2015, 05:30:36 PM »
Actually the coach did approach the table and say the score was wrong. Both referees told him it was correct and to take a seat. The technicality is that he didn't hold up a flag when he questioned it and that is crap. Flo interviewed the coach. The interview is on their site.
Did they say how it was wrong?

Yes and you can see on track when the error occurred. They didn't award an escape and you can see where they got around the track software which wasn't letting them record the second takedown without giving an escape

And it is absolutely in the rulebook, let me find it
Topics Falcon doesn't know anything about- Cars, Binary, Accounting, and 13th Century Polish Literature

Offline ctc

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 18851
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2015, 06:30:16 PM »
I agree that the refs screwed up.  I believe the coach said the score was wrong.  What I am asking is, did they tell the refs that the escape point was not awarded?  I don't have flo to see. 
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline head n arm

  • World Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 1636
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2015, 07:14:40 PM »
I don't know if he specifically said that or not. But it doesn't matter. The score was wrong and the NCAA knew it was wrong before the next round started. They have no excuse for not correcting that mistake. Blaming it on a coach is not good enough. The coach pointed out the mistake and was told to sit down.

We hear all the time that sports should teach student athletes character. I believe it does. The NCAA not doing what is right in this situation is a horrible example of character. These kids work way too hard for something like this strip them of a dream come true. The NCAA should be embarrassed.
"I'm actually worse at picking winners in wrestling than I am MMA, and that is saying something"

Offline TobusRex

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 8849
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2015, 08:25:56 PM »
Don't take this out on Realbuto. He didn't want this. He just does his job and it's the score keeper and the ref that need to get it right.

Agreed. I don't get the hate being directed at Realbuto. Not his fault that Miller was jobbed.
Have you got to get rid of all your knowledge and all your common sense to save your soul? - Clarence Darrow

Offline ctc

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 18851
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2015, 11:15:30 PM »
I don't know if he specifically said that or not. But it doesn't matter. The score was wrong and the NCAA knew it was wrong before the next round started. They have no excuse for not correcting that mistake. Blaming it on a coach is not good enough. The coach pointed out the mistake and was told to sit down.

We hear all the time that sports should teach student athletes character. I believe it does. The NCAA not doing what is right in this situation is a horrible example of character. These kids work way too hard for something like this strip them of a dream come true. The NCAA should be embarrassed.
I have not read the college rules; but, in high school, scoring errors have to be corrected before the next period starts.  The Kent State coach should have pulled out the flag.  Sad Miller lost; but, rules are in place for a reason.  Making scoring errors correctable after the start of another period opens up a major can of worms.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline ctc

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 18851
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2015, 11:17:44 PM »
The refs should have to under go some kind of consequences as in additional training and procedure.  An apology letter won't cure the screw up; but, would help.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline head n arm

  • World Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 1636
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2015, 02:44:03 AM »
I don't blame Realbuto at all. Or the coach of either team. This is on the NCAA officials who realized the problem and chose not to fix it. That's the problem.
"I'm actually worse at picking winners in wrestling than I am MMA, and that is saying something"

Offline RYou

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 17881
  • 3 out of 4 voices in my head want to sleep
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2015, 08:32:10 AM »
That is what is ridiculous...apparently the coaches did question the score and the refs told them to sit down

This.

According to Andrassy, he requested a referee review.  His mistake, not waving the flag and making it an official challenge.

Refs and the head scorer blew and then the coach blew it by not knowing the rules and protesting right then and there.

The ref never indicated the 1 point escape.  The scorer is not responsible for putting up points a ref has not officially awarded.

Offline head n arm

  • World Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 1636
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2015, 10:02:22 AM »
I can't imagine a situation where a basketball team drains a three at the buzzer but is awarded four points instead and the NCAA doesn't correct its mistake. Falcon was right, the NCAA doesn't care because its just wrestling and no one will ever know thus happened outside of the small wrestling community.

I also can't imagine anyone defending the NCAA if it happened in basketball. They ripped I am Miller's heart from his chest and people are defending that. Its pathetic. The rule was never intended to defend a wrong score. Common sense has to take over at some point. There is no defense for this decision.
"I'm actually worse at picking winners in wrestling than I am MMA, and that is saying something"

Offline jammen

  • National Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 1539
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2015, 10:47:12 AM »
The NCAA screwed this up badly.  The video challenge rule was never intended to fix scoring errors.  For if a coach is out of challenges are they then arguing that the scoring error cannot be corrected and that there is no recourse?

The following rule is what actually governs scoring errors and was ignored by the committee in their statement "3.11.2 Error by Timekeeper and/or Scorers. Any error not resolved by the referee shall be arbitrated by the tournament committee."  As there is no way for a tournament committee to meet before the next match begins it is clear that rulings can be made after the fact when so warranted. 

If you've followed the Dardane's-Stieber misscoring and my subsequent banning then you know that I blame the coaches 100%.  Why, you may ask?  Because clock/riding time/scoring errors occur frequently and often go unnoticed.  For instance, Nick Dardanes had another match misscored in the National Duals, but it wasn't noticed nor corrected because it didn't affect the outcome.  I was at the Nebraska home dual on 2/10/2005 when Okie St won because of a scoring error, 19-18.
Referee's do their best but the burden of getting the calls correct is tough enough without also having to keep track of the score.  And we all know that scorekeepers/timers are often hastily drafted and poorly trained.

The only way for teams to prevent these kind of commonplace foulups is to assign an asst coach to track the clock/riding time/score.  Now the NCAA needs to determine what is their policy for correcting fouled scorekeeping and then tweak it to make it work.
Tax the churches.

Offline Gantry

  • National Champ
  • ****
  • Posts: 1218
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2015, 11:34:24 AM »
I can't imagine a situation where a basketball team drains a three at the buzzer but is awarded four points instead and the NCAA doesn't correct its mistake. Falcon was right, the NCAA doesn't care because its just wrestling and no one will ever know thus happened outside of the small wrestling community.

I also can't imagine anyone defending the NCAA if it happened in basketball. They ripped I am Miller's heart from his chest and people are defending that. Its pathetic. The rule was never intended to defend a wrong score. Common sense has to take over at some point. There is no defense for this decision.

It happens in other sports, this one determined a national champ in football:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Down_Game_%281990%29

Not saying its not unfortunate, but sometimes the refs mess up something major in the course of the game in other collegiate sports and they keep the outcome in tact.

Offline head n arm

  • World Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 1636
    • View Profile
Re: miller's screw job
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2015, 12:11:41 PM »
Thank you for that attachment Gantry. It solidifies my point about the NCAA. They have done things like this in the past, but continue to not fix it. It is not okay just because its happened before. In fact, its worse because its happened before. If they really cared about the athletes, they would go to great lengths to make sure they get it right. They don't, though. That is not character building. It teaches kids that you can't trust anyone. Teaches them to only look out for themselves. Teaches them to hate "the man." It does not teach them to be a better man.
"I'm actually worse at picking winners in wrestling than I am MMA, and that is saying something"