Author Topic: Individual results  (Read 14730 times)

Offline Gantry

  • National Champ
  • ****
  • Posts: 1218
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2015, 01:14:06 AM »
I'm absolutely willing to help with this project in whatever way I can.  Wrestlestats is a fantastic site and has much of the infrastructure right now for what we are looking to accomplish, but one thing that worries me about it is that it is andegre's baby and he holds all the keys.  I hope that doesn't come off the wrong way as I LOVE the site and respect the heck out of what you do, but we've seen over and over with wrestling websites that the ones that tend to be run by one person (especially the stat driven ones) at some point get stale, bought out and put behind a paywall or just up and go away.  If andregre is willing to open up the site for access to other members to contribute and we have some way to ensure the data is open (creative commons or public domain license perhaps?) I'm on board with data entry, administrative help, coding, donations, etc.   If he doesn't want to give up control of his baby that he's worked so hard on to a bunch of randoms on the Information Superhighway, I understand that as well. 

Agree about all divisions being represented, and heck if we get the proper framework in place we can extend to senior level wrestling as well.   




Offline RYou

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 17881
  • 3 out of 4 voices in my head want to sleep
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2015, 06:42:58 AM »

I don't know how he does it but andegre does a pretty good job of tracking individual and team results ncluding last year's stat's.

http://www.wrestlestats.com

Offline Jason Bryant

  • Global Moderator
  • World Champ
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
  • Thou shalt not fist to the back
    • View Profile
    • http://www.mattalkonline.com
Re: Individual results
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2015, 10:46:50 AM »
I love what WrestleStats has brought to the community. When I was still with TOM/AWN, I used it frequently for matchups for our Duals of the Week.

I'd recommend setting up a patreon account and putting a link on the sidebar asking for contributions to keep that project going

www.patreon.com

JB
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it. -- Mitch Hedberg

Offline andegre

  • DIII
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2015, 01:02:36 PM »
I love what WrestleStats has brought to the community. When I was still with TOM/AWN, I used it frequently for matchups for our Duals of the Week.

I'd recommend setting up a patreon account and putting a link on the sidebar asking for contributions to keep that project going

www.patreon.com

JB

Thanks JB, just curious, why do/would you favor this, over just doing a PayPal donate option? I signed up for the PayPal business account over 6 months ago, but never pulled the trigger on adding it to the site...

Offline Ray Brinzer

  • Ipse Dixit
  • Administrator
  • Get a Job
  • *****
  • Posts: 7622
    • View Profile
    • http://ray.brinzer.net/
Re: Individual results
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2015, 05:05:40 PM »
I'd wanted to respond, but haven't had a chance. I have only a limited chance now. I'm going to be relatively brief; don't read too much into my tone. If I say anything which seems a little abrasive, or you're wondering whether I'm hinting at something, consider that I'm writing in haste, and give me the benefit of the doubt.

First off, I don't really follow college wrestling, so I'm approaching this problem from a somewhat abstract standpoint. I didn't know wrestlestats, because I don't look for that sort of thing. I do believe that this is important for our sport, however.  I have now looked it over briefly, and asked around about it. What I've gotten back is basically:  good site, could be better, good guy, and confirmation on the points above about duplicate results and bugs.

How fair that is, I don't know, but let me point out that I don't regard it as a matter of great importance anyway:  the code someone actually wrote beats whatever better ideas nobody has implemented yet. Moving from rough to polished is the natural way of things.

More of a concern to me is the fact that the guy who writes the code is also entering the data. That's a poor use of an important resource.  Combined with the reluctance to ask for money, the fact that the site is a two-man show, and the drive to get it done at any cost... well, it's very wrestling.  That's not always good.  And understand that I say that knowing that I have exactly the same tendencies.

So, andegre, my suggestion:  open up.  Trust people.  You need a community behind this, and communities form when people have a sense of (figurative) ownership in the project.  However much work you're doing, there's a lot more to be done.  Wrestling has a lot of crazy people with too much time on their hands really dedicated fans, and we'd might as well make use of them.

That's my unsolicited 2ยข, given with the hope that you succeed.  I'm usually not that direct, so I hope you'll pardon the presumption... I'm just about out of keyboard time.

Offline Jason Bryant

  • Global Moderator
  • World Champ
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
  • Thou shalt not fist to the back
    • View Profile
    • http://www.mattalkonline.com
Re: Individual results
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2015, 06:47:03 PM »
Patreon allows smaller, monthly contributions and doesn't rely solely on PayPal, which some people have an aversion to. You can also set various rates and you can offer perks. If people want to just give a buck or two a month, that's on them and it can recur vs. asking for a "donation"

I've picked up a few contributions to my Mat Talk stuff by simply calling it a team membership than a donation
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it. -- Mitch Hedberg

Offline LoSt

  • I Need More Hobbies
  • *****
  • Posts: 3081
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2015, 10:06:39 AM »
Open-sourcing is the best way to prevent a non-revenue generating website/game/project from going the way of a dodo.  By the time the creator moves on other people are fully involved in the development and maintenance of the project and able to take over the reins.  There is only so long that a person can put a large amount of effort into a labor of love that makes them no money before they need to move on to something else, its just the natural way of things.

There is a fun open-source strategy game I play occasionally that is still going strong after 12 years and has gone through multiple rotations of key members; http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Credits
It started as a side project for one guy and as you can see from the credits page I linked its grown into something that hundreds of people have contributed to in one way or another.

I second the thought that wrestlestats is a great starting point to build from.  As a fan, the biggest problems I have are the buggy results that often have missing matches or duplicate entries.  I don't know enough to comment on the coding

Offline andegre

  • DIII
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2016, 11:18:53 AM »
Just want to give everyone an update here.

I've started working on more screens to allow more of this crowd-sourced approach to entering data, like we've talked about in this thread. This is already implemented in production and being used by "my data guy". I need to get more security built-in, but I'm definitely moving forward with this.

Offline brycemus

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 32402
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2016, 11:41:51 AM »
andre thank you for all the hard work you do.  in fact thanks to all the guys like you seton who take the time for this.
Corey Clark: 2016-2017 Hawkeye Hammer

Offline buf87

  • DI
  • ***
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2016, 12:45:58 PM »
I also appreciate the info Andegre.  I use the comparisons (team and individual) a lot.  I do wish the search comparison could be narrowed to current year or career.

Offline andegre

  • DIII
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2016, 01:50:59 PM »
I also appreciate the info Andegre.  I use the comparisons (team and individual) a lot.  I do wish the search comparison could be narrowed to current year or career.

Did we talk about that on the cyclonefanatic board? Does grouping the common opponents (and head-to-head previous matches) by year get you closer to what you want? I'm not a fan of removing previous years results, but I DO agree that it is a mess when looking since I'm ordering by the opponents instead of the match dates.

Offline buf87

  • DI
  • ***
  • Posts: 713
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2016, 01:56:50 PM »
I also appreciate the info Andegre.  I use the comparisons (team and individual) a lot.  I do wish the search comparison could be narrowed to current year or career.

Did we talk about that on the cyclonefanatic board? Does grouping the common opponents (and head-to-head previous matches) by year get you closer to what you want? I'm not a fan of removing previous years results, but I DO agree that it is a mess when looking since I'm ordering by the opponents instead of the match dates.

Yes we did.  And even grouping by date would help, but I understand opponent being helpful.  Just depends on amount of time sorting.  I would prefer date, because I want to know how the guy is doing now.

Offline TobusRex

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 8849
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2016, 03:42:57 PM »
I'd like to offer my thanks too andre. Great stuff!
Have you got to get rid of all your knowledge and all your common sense to save your soul? - Clarence Darrow

Offline andegre

  • DIII
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2016, 04:02:31 PM »
One of these next couple nights (who am I kidding, it will probably be tonight), I'm going to compile a spreadsheet of the "stuff" that the data entry users should be able to do, and the screens that would be necessary to go with it. Also, the permission levels that would be required in order to do this.

For the people that are in this thread that have volunteered to help with this stuff (whenever it gets done), could you send me an email (wrestlestat@gmail.com) so I can share a Google Sheets doc when I get done. Sending that out, and having everyone look over will help me better plan all of the work that will need to go into this, as well as get new ideas for stuff that I don't/won't think of.

Thanks everyone!

Offline TobusRex

  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 8849
    • View Profile
Re: Individual results
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2016, 06:15:00 PM »
I keep having this weird idea that andegre is Andre Metzger, lol. Weird, huh?
Have you got to get rid of all your knowledge and all your common sense to save your soul? - Clarence Darrow