Author Topic: 10 undefeated national champs?  (Read 7140 times)

Offline leglace

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 09:12:39 AM »
Suriano has a very good shot at beating Gilman. 2 more shots to be exact.
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Offline brycemus

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 10:35:40 AM »
I agree.  The blueprint for beating him is out there.  Get an early takedown and ride tough.  Gilman does not have better than average leg defense.  He is just able to compensate with his attack offense that dictates pace and position.

I don't think anyone beats him at Nationals, but I could see him taking a loss to Suriano in the Big 10 finals.
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Offline YakRider

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 12:34:40 PM »
Hey isn't downey undefeated as well?

why yes he is brew!!!!!   good point.  also he has already told nickal he is a bum and dean has had his 2 rings and now it's pd3's turn for a couple.   ;D

Offline goStanford18

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 10:26:49 PM »
@ Bryce: It's possible that Iowa may not have a champion for the 3rd year in a row (the last was Ramos in 2014). I do think Gilman will win out this year, but his recent troubles on bottom have given me a few concerns. What's the longest period of time Iowa has not had a National Champ (Gable era and post-Gable era)? If Gilman doesn't win this year, will the next Hawkeye champ be someone who is currently not on the roster (i.e. Spencer Lee)? I do not think an injured Cory Clark will be making the finals.

@ Alex: Which year has the least amount of schools winning an individual NCAA title? Has there ever been a year with 4 or less schools winning it all? Penn State and Ohio State could very likely win 8/10 next year with Oklahoma State (Heil) and Illinois (Martinez) rounding out the last 2. It appears that there is usually 5+ schools coming away with an individual champ. 2011 featured 10 champions from 9 different schools. I'm not sure if there has ever been a year with 10 champions from 10 different schools.



Offline n9531l

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 01:31:39 AM »
1942, three schools.

Michigan State at 121, 128, and 136
Oklahoma State at 145, 155, 165, Heavyweight
Pennsylvania at 175
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Offline brycemus

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 09:47:47 AM »
@ Bryce: It's possible that Iowa may not have a champion for the 3rd year in a row (the last was Ramos in 2014). I do think Gilman will win out this year, but his recent troubles on bottom have given me a few concerns. What's the longest period of time Iowa has not had a National Champ (Gable era and post-Gable era)? If Gilman doesn't win this year, will the next Hawkeye champ be someone who is currently not on the roster (i.e. Spencer Lee)? I do not think an injured Cory Clark will be making the finals.
I do not disagree with your description of Gilman this year.  As I pointed out he uses his own offense, pace, and style to dictate what the opponent does.  For a wrestler to beat him this year they will have to break out of that cycle.  Joey Dance is capable of going with him on his feet, but will not ride him.  Suriano has solid defense and could also attack him if he opened up, but again lacks the top game.  Cruz is a wrestler who could pose a problem on his feet and on the mat.  Lizak is great on top.  And Lambert showed he can keep Gilman down, even if he cannot go with him in neutral.  Even Terao, with his tendency to force odd positions will pose a problem if they meet again.  I expect him to do what Ramos did at Natioanals, be unspectacular.  Gilman is going to will himself to a championship there and I fully expect him to win close matches not only in the semis, but the finals as well.  He will not put himself in a position he can make a mistake.

As to your history question:
1963-1972 Iowa had a streak of no National Champions including years with no All-Americans1964-1968.  It has been a long time.
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Offline OkieSpladle

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 01:39:54 PM »
@ Bryce: It's possible that Iowa may not have a champion for the 3rd year in a row (the last was Ramos in 2014). I do think Gilman will win out this year, but his recent troubles on bottom have given me a few concerns. What's the longest period of time Iowa has not had a National Champ (Gable era and post-Gable era)? If Gilman doesn't win this year, will the next Hawkeye champ be someone who is currently not on the roster (i.e. Spencer Lee)? I do not think an injured Cory Clark will be making the finals.

@ Alex: Which year has the least amount of schools winning an individual NCAA title? Has there ever been a year with 4 or less schools winning it all? Penn State and Ohio State could very likely win 8/10 next year with Oklahoma State (Heil) and Illinois (Martinez) rounding out the last 2. It appears that there is usually 5+ schools coming away with an individual champ. 2011 featured 10 champions from 9 different schools. I'm not sure if there has ever been a year with 10 champions from 10 different schools.

2009 had 10 champs from 10 schools.  I'm not aware of any years in the 10 weight era with less than 5 schools winning (1997 Iowa had five, OkSt had two, and the other three were from different schools), but I only had time for a cursory search.

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 03:02:42 PM »
@ Bryce: It's possible that Iowa may not have a champion for the 3rd year in a row (the last was Ramos in 2014). I do think Gilman will win out this year, but his recent troubles on bottom have given me a few concerns. What's the longest period of time Iowa has not had a National Champ (Gable era and post-Gable era)? If Gilman doesn't win this year, will the next Hawkeye champ be someone who is currently not on the roster (i.e. Spencer Lee)? I do not think an injured Cory Clark will be making the finals.

@ Alex: Which year has the least amount of schools winning an individual NCAA title? Has there ever been a year with 4 or less schools winning it all? Penn State and Ohio State could very likely win 8/10 next year with Oklahoma State (Heil) and Illinois (Martinez) rounding out the last 2. It appears that there is usually 5+ schools coming away with an individual champ. 2011 featured 10 champions from 9 different schools. I'm not sure if there has ever been a year with 10 champions from 10 different schools.

2009 had 10 champs from 10 schools.  I'm not aware of any years in the 10 weight era with less than 5 schools winning (1997 Iowa had five, OkSt had two, and the other three were from different schools), but I only had time for a cursory search.
N 95 answered this.
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Offline n9531l

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 04:22:09 PM »
I'm not aware of any years in the 10 weight era with less than 5 schools winning.
N 95 answered this.

Alex wondered about the 10-weight era, which started either in 1952 when there were 10 weights for the NCAA tournament only, or in 1970 when 10 weights started being used for duals and all tournaments. I glanced through Jay Hammond's book and stopped looking when I came across 1942. When I get a chance I'll see if there are some later years.
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Offline Cruocified

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 06:01:49 PM »
So I'm assuming never have all 10 champs been undefeated?

Another couple questions (these apply to all eras, not just the 10-weight):

1.  What's the longest stretch that a school from Iowa or Oklahoma hasn't been the national champion?  We've gotta be close right?

2.  How many years total has one of the top two teams NOT been from Iowa or Oklahoma?  I'm guessing this is a single digit number.
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Offline n9531l

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 07:12:53 PM »
1.  What's the longest stretch that a school from Iowa or Oklahoma hasn't been the national champion?  We've gotta be close right?

Before 2011, the longest stretch was three years, 1943-1945, when the tournament wasn't held due to WW II. Other than that, the longest stretch was two years, which only happened once, 2001-2002, when Minnesota won two of its three titles.
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Offline n9531l

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 07:25:32 PM »
2.  How many years total has one of the top two teams NOT been from Iowa or Oklahoma?  I'm guessing this is a single digit number.

You are correct. The number is 4.

1967  Michigan State, Michigan
2011  Penn State, Cornell
2012  Penn State, Minnesota
2014  Penn State, Minnesota
Orthography is next to cleanliness, which is next to godliness. - n9531l

Offline n9531l

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2017, 07:40:53 PM »
Just for kicks, here are the numbers of titles won by Oklahoma and Iowa schools.

Oklahoma State 34
Iowa 23
Iowa State 8
Oklahoma 7
Northern Iowa 1
Cornell College 1

Pennsylvania (6) and Minnesota (3) are the only other states with more than 1.
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Offline Jointdoc55

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2017, 11:59:29 AM »
When's the last time all 10 national champs finished undefeated?  I'm not saying it'll happen this year, but it is as likely as any other scenario.

285: Snyder is a lock.
197: Cox is a lock. 
184: If Dean isn't a lock, then only Nickal will beat him, and either guy could finish undefeated. 
174: With BoJo's lingering injury, I don't see him finishing undefeated, but who can stop Zahid?  Mark Hall might upset the 10 undefeated champ scenario.
165: IMar a lock
157: Nolf a lock
149: Sorensen is the only one who could potentially spoil a Retherford perfect season, and that most likely isn't going to happen.
141: Will anybody stop Heil from becoming the worst 3x national champion of all time?
133: Clark would have ran the table here, but with his injury I don't see anyone taking out Tomasello.
125:  Gilman was one of the surest things at the beginning of the year, but everyone will be out to Lizak him come tourney time.

Any oddsmakers out there?
So Clark would have run the table? Really? Have you watched Tomasello at all this year? I'm not saying Tomasello would have have been a lock against a healthy Clark, but I would like his chances.

Offline Jointdoc55

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Re: 10 undefeated national champs?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2017, 12:12:24 PM »
Wouldnt shock me at all if Cox lost.

Who can beat him? IIRC his last loss was on criteria in the Olympics. His last loss to an American was Dake.
I'm not claiming that Kollin Moore will beat him, but Cox won their match in December only 6-4. Still, I think Cox will be ready for the NCAAs.