Author Topic: Hypothetical situation  (Read 2772 times)

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Hypothetical situation
« on: January 31, 2019, 10:52:31 PM »
Wrestler A takes the lead 9-4 in the second period after getting a lucky 5 point move. In the third period, Wrestler B is storming back, and with the momentum shift, Wrestler gets called for a locked hands call and a stall warning. They continue to wrestle with some good action and Wrestler A gets called for an illegal figure four. With 20 seconds left in the third , and now after all those good flurries, Wrestler A is up 14-11. With time dwindling down, Wrestler A is backing up and banged with stalling yet again, putting the score at 14-13. There is one last flurry , and time expires, Wrestler A wins 14-13. As they are approaching the ten-foot circle, you notice Wrestler A's shoe is not properly fastened and it is untied.

What happens now?

What if the opposing coach sees this too and goes to the table before they shake hands?

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2019, 08:28:19 AM »
Edited for grammar and spelling....

Wrestler A takes the lead 9-4 in the second period after getting a lucky 5 point move. In the third period, Wrestler B is storming back, and with the momentum shift, Wrestler A gets called for a locked hands call and a stall warning. They continue to wrestle with some good action and Wrestler A gets called for an illegal figure four. With 20 seconds left in the third , and now after all those good flurries, Wrestler A is up 14-11. With time dwindling down, Wrestler A is backing up and banged with stalling yet again, putting the score at 14-13. There is one last flurry , and time expires, Wrestler A wins 14-13. As they are approaching the ten-foot circle to shake hands, you notice Wrestler A's shoe is not properly fastened and it is untied (or something as simple as they weren't taped to begin with).

What happens now?

What if the opposing coach sees this too and goes to the table before they shake hands?

Offline RYou

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2019, 09:10:30 AM »
Were the laces secured at the onset of the bout?  If not, the ref may have screwed up if local association rules require a secured mechanism or taping.

Were the laces tied at the last restart?  Presumably so, if not ref screwed up again.

Presumably, the laces became untied and it was not noticed during the end of bout action, bout is over.

Calling a technical violation for laces after the bout is over is likely going to require a security escort out of the building, particularly if it swings who wins the bout.


Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2019, 10:01:14 AM »
RYou,

My thoughts exactly. However, there are times, after a match, for whatever reason, I see that the shoes don't have that fancy fastener or the velcro, and they're NOT taped. I try to look each wrestler up each and every time they report, but some sneak by....so I came up with this scenario...

what if the shoes were tied, but were not secured/fastened to the letter of the law (via velcro, strap, and/or tape), and it was noticed at the end of the match, and the coach of the opposing team sees it too, and it would be THE DQ violation of the penalty chart, 1-1-2-DQ. This kind of #$@# keeps me up at night.

You would have to call it then if the coach takes you to the table, wouldn't you, especially since they are NOT taped. I don't know, it's a 1 in a million situation, but I thought I would ask....

Offline RYou

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2019, 12:28:38 PM »
All the more reason for a comprehensive inspection in the locker room.  Who knows, you could miss long hair too.

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2019, 01:10:45 PM »
Could be a Dual meet tournament, or an invitational tournament, and you didn't check that specific team/wrestler....but, I hear ya!

Offline RYou

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2019, 02:02:43 PM »
I'm of the opinion that if the (a) ref missed something at the locker room inspection, the wrestler should be given the opportunity to correct the situation without being dinged injury or a penalty point for a technical violation.  The tough decision becomes what to do if the wrestler and coach are unable to correct the situation.  Then I would look at significance and to some degree the point in time of the season.  Mid to end of season, no excuses. 

Miss facial hair, you're not wending a wrestler back to the lockers to shave....keep your hands in your pocket and moth shut.
Shoelaces - tape them quickly.

Don't leave yourself open to criticism and don't embarrass yourself by penalizing the wrestler for something you screwed up.

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 03:25:37 PM »
RYOU,

I love it! you spit some great wisdom on here!

Number 1 rule I learned on here......"Don't look for boogers!"

That simple quote has really helped me improve as an official. Do your due diligence, know the rules, and everything else will fall into place.

I just wish there was more than like 5 of us lurking around here.....

You guys are the best!

As you know, this was a hypothetical situation......however, a kid forgets his mouthguard (has braces)...I had no choice but to ding him when I saw him open his mouth before the start of the match and there he was with braces. Makes me wonder if I should highlight student names on the weigh-in sheet to let me know they must have a mouthguard when they report....

All right everyone, good luck with sectionals and states!

Offline Ray Brinzer

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2019, 08:00:52 AM »
As you know, this was a hypothetical situation......however, a kid forgets his mouthguard (has braces)...I had no choice but to ding him when I saw him open his mouth before the start of the match and there he was with braces.

Penalizing someone isn't a problem, though of course it's best when no one does anything worth penalizing.  The problem in your hypothetical case is that all the decisions in the match were essentially made on false premises.  Wrestler A would have acted differently had the penalty point been awarded at the beginning of the match, as it should have been.  The referee's mistake creates an unfair situation, and has a strong influence on the outcome of the match, which is a scenario we want to avoid.

Frankly, I tend to think that the rules should stipulate that such penalties not be awarded after the first period.  Such rules are intended to make matches run smoothly, and leaving the issue open throughout the match does the opposite.

Offline matref0

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 10:34:16 PM »
Don’t forget that after the stalling penalty for two points, wrestler B would be given choice of position on the next restart.


Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 10:58:05 PM »
Yup....missed and not caught more times than you think

Offline red viking

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2019, 01:26:49 PM »
Don’t forget that after the stalling penalty for two points, wrestler B would be given choice of position on the next restart.

Yup. So we have bad time if he wasn't given that choice.
"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst." Thomas Paine

Offline New2TheGameNYRef

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Re: Hypothetical situation
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2019, 02:27:31 PM »
There was no restart after the last stall call was given. No bad time.