Author Topic: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff  (Read 202 times)

Online mspart

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 22671
    • View Profile
PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« on: September 21, 2019, 10:46:39 PM »
Well, PD III went 2-1, no repechage.   Not too bad.
Graff did well and is in repechage.
Snyder lost his semi to the AZE guy 5-2.  Not what we expect of Kyle but he still can win Bronze.
Dake going for Gold. 

So a possibility of 3 more medals. 

mspart

Offline Snackem

  • Section Champ
  • *
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
    • Jeremy Lanthorn Photography
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2019, 11:12:44 PM »
I still don't understand the reason for repecharge instead of a consi bracket.  There is plenty of time to run a full consi bracket.

Online mspart

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 22671
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2019, 10:47:29 AM »
This has a huge history.  I believe in 1996 Olympics, they ran a full double elim tourney.  But the results were not PC.  Only the best were awarded medals.   So they devised a method that more countries could win medals.  They went with a single elimination tournament with a completely blind draw.  Semifinalist losers would wrestle for Bronze.  This gave more chances, if one side of the bracket was weak, for weaker nations to get a medal.  The was the way it was for the 2000 Olys and I think the 2004.  The IOC also had a hand in this because they wanted one weight class ending in one day and then the IOC said they were getting rid of wrestling.  Wrestling got reinstated and a follow the leader type path to bronze was made and they called it repechage.  It is more complicated and I'm sure I've left out some iterations.  Then the UWW decided that the main bracket would be done in one day except for the finals and repechage and they seeded the top 4.  Finals and repechage will be on day two.  That is what we have now.

 I like this better than the semi finalist losers fighting for bronze.  It makes better sense that if you lost to a finalist, you might be a 3rd placer.  Depending on the bracket draw.  But  we have 2 bronzes awarded rather than 1 bronze, but I still like it better. 

I would prefer double elimination but that is probably not going to happen.  Have to keep the IOC happy. 

mspart

Offline ViseGrip

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 34976
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 12:06:44 PM »
This has a huge history.  I believe in 1996 Olympics, they ran a full double elim tourney.  But the results were not PC.  Only the best were awarded medals.   So they devised a method that more countries could win medals.  They went with a single elimination tournament with a completely blind draw.  Semifinalist losers would wrestle for Bronze.  This gave more chances, if one side of the bracket was weak, for weaker nations to get a medal.  The was the way it was for the 2000 Olys and I think the 2004.  The IOC also had a hand in this because they wanted one weight class ending in one day and then the IOC said they were getting rid of wrestling.  Wrestling got reinstated and a follow the leader type path to bronze was made and they called it repechage.  It is more complicated and I'm sure I've left out some iterations.  Then the UWW decided that the main bracket would be done in one day except for the finals and repechage and they seeded the top 4.  Finals and repechage will be on day two.  That is what we have now.

 I like this better than the semi finalist losers fighting for bronze.  It makes better sense that if you lost to a finalist, you might be a 3rd placer.  Depending on the bracket draw.  But  we have 2 bronzes awarded rather than 1 bronze, but I still like it better. 

I would prefer double elimination but that is probably not going to happen.  Have to keep the IOC happy. 

mspart

The IOC is the worst thing to ever happen to wrestling.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline Jerry Callo

  • World Silver
  • *****
  • Posts: 2303
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 02:47:40 PM »
So with 10 World Championship weights and only 6 olympic weights - what happens?  I guess Dake goes down to challenge Burroughs and Cox & Taylor fight it out at 89 kg, right?

Green has to drop down and do battle with Zain/Yianni or he is out - and the two lightest weights stay the same? 

When are they going to get consistent - either 6, 8 or 10 weights - just make up their minds!

97 and 125 stay the same, I guess?

Mongo only pawn in game of life.

Online mspart

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 22671
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2019, 04:34:47 PM »
The choice was a few years ago 6 weights.  UWW decided shortly after they took over from FILA to go to 10 weights for WC's and the IOC (and therefore UWW) does 6 weights for the Olympics.  Last Olympics, UWW held a WC for the non Oly weights so there were 4 additional World Champions in MFS.  I guess they are not doing that in 2020 which is a shame really.  WC is not OC but it  ain't shabby either for tweeners. 

As far as Dake and Cox goes, they will go where they go, no telling right now.   Everyone is just guessing that Cox will go up a weight and Dake will go down a weight.  But I don't think Dake will be as effective down a weight, and Cox may not be able to beat Snyder.  And some are talking like Snyder will go up a weight.  It is a huge mess with a lot of World and Olympic Champions at the same weights quite possibly.  It will be entertaining and frustrating as some WC's will not be able to go to the Oly's. 

mspart

Offline Cougar1

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 21444
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 09:13:09 AM »
The choice was a few years ago 6 weights.  UWW decided shortly after they took over from FILA to go to 10 weights for WC's and the IOC (and therefore UWW) does 6 weights for the Olympics.  Last Olympics, UWW held a WC for the non Oly weights so there were 4 additional World Champions in MFS.  I guess they are not doing that in 2020 which is a shame really.  WC is not OC but it  ain't shabby either for tweeners. 

As far as Dake and Cox goes, they will go where they go, no telling right now.   Everyone is just guessing that Cox will go up a weight and Dake will go down a weight.  But I don't think Dake will be as effective down a weight, and Cox may not be able to beat Snyder.  And some are talking like Snyder will go up a weight.  It is a huge mess with a lot of World and Olympic Champions at the same weights quite possibly.  It will be entertaining and frustrating as some WC's will not be able to go to the Oly's. 

mspart
Having seen J’den up close I can’t imagine him going down. The guy is ripped with very little to spare.
“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.”

― G.K. Chesterton

Offline ViseGrip

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 34976
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 02:22:12 PM »
So with 10 World Championship weights and only 6 olympic weights - what happens?  I guess Dake goes down to challenge Burroughs and Cox & Taylor fight it out at 89 kg, right?

Green has to drop down and do battle with Zain/Yianni or he is out - and the two lightest weights stay the same? 

When are they going to get consistent - either 6, 8 or 10 weights - just make up their minds!

97 and 125 stay the same, I guess?
I'd like to see Dake drop to 74KG, Taylor at 86KG, Cox at 97KG  and Snyder at 125KG

At minimum I think that would win 2 Golds (74 & 86) 1 Silver (97 Sudaleav is the only human with a chance of beating Cox) and 1 Bronze (I think Snyder can medal here), with a legit shot at 3 golds and 1 bronze. This would put us in a great position to win especially if we can medal at 57 or 65.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Online mspart

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 22671
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 02:33:23 PM »
What makes you think Snyder would want to go 125?  I don't think he will and I think he will welcome the challenge from Cox and beat him.  I think Cox's best chance is to go back down.   I think he trains with Snyder at least sometimes so those two would be the best to know.

mspart

Offline ViseGrip

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 34976
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2019, 02:49:03 PM »
What makes you think Snyder would want to go 125?  I don't think he will and I think he will welcome the challenge from Cox and beat him.  I think Cox's best chance is to go back down.   I think he trains with Snyder at least sometimes so those two would be the best to know.

mspart

I didnt say I did. It was what I'D like to see.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Online mspart

  • LXP
  • Get a Job
  • *
  • Posts: 22671
    • View Profile
Re: PD III, Snyder, Dake, Graff
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2019, 11:01:42 AM »
Ah, the old wish list!

mspart