Author Topic: Miami Condo Collapse  (Read 6439 times)

Offline RYou

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Miami Condo Collapse
« on: June 24, 2021, 08:56:12 AM »
I thought this only happened in China

Look at the cars parked bottom left, they are tilted. This has all of the earmarks of sink hole erupting under the building.


Offline mspart

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2021, 11:56:51 AM »
This is terrible.  Last count was 1 dead, but that is sure to rise.

mspart

Offline ctc

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2021, 04:53:25 PM »
Already heard it is because of climate change and rising sea levels.  They never miss an opportunity regardless of how absurd it is.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline RYou

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2021, 07:35:13 PM »
Already heard it is because of climate change and rising sea levels.  They never miss an opportunity regardless of how absurd it is.

If that is remotely true, the value of the ocean / bay front housing in Miami just fell through the floor.

Ordinarily the footings for such properties are set on bedrock in which case a rising sea level would have no effect unless the underground salt water eroded the concrete and steel. 

They may well find a car at the bottom of the rubble severed a corner pillar.

Offline ctc

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2021, 10:00:58 PM »
Already heard it is because of climate change and rising sea levels.  They never miss an opportunity regardless of how absurd it is.

If that is remotely true, the value of the ocean / bay front housing in Miami just fell through the floor.

Ordinarily the footings for such properties are set on bedrock in which case a rising sea level would have no effect unless the underground salt water eroded the concrete and steel. 

They may well find a car at the bottom of the rubble severed a corner pillar.
Amazing how thyey think the sea level rises there and nowhere else measurable.
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline RYou

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2021, 08:05:46 PM »
Well its looking to be quite the reverse.  Insufficient water drainage from the parking lot may be a contributing factor.  The condo association had an engineering study conducted 3 years which identified $9 million in needed repairs.  That was one of the prioritized issues.  The Association took a $15 million loan to be paid out of the owners pockets, financed by HOA fee increases. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/collapsed-florida-building-residents-told-it-was-safe-despite-major-n1272507

Quote from: NBC News Services June 28 2021

Morabito recommended that concrete slabs, which were “showing distress” by the entrance and pool deck, “be removed and replaced in their entirety.” He said the concrete deterioration should "be repaired in a timely fashion."

That pool was swallowed into a massive sinkhole shortly before the collapse, now-missing resident Cassondra “Cassie” Billedeau-Stratton told her husband on the phone before her line went dead.




Offline mspart

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2021, 12:18:52 PM »
Not looking good. 

mspart

Offline RYou

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2021, 11:51:15 PM »
A lot of the Florida property insurance policies have subsidence exclusions intended to avoid coverage for sinkhole damage.  The engineering report looks like it will hinder owner recoveries due to the apparent excessive wear and tear corrosion.  It sure looks like that building will get razed and the owners will be relegated to the land value.  As a beachfront property that could be worth a bundle but not likely equal to what a resident recently paid for a unit.

Offline red viking

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2021, 09:52:22 AM »
Already heard it is because of climate change and rising sea levels.  They never miss an opportunity regardless of how absurd it is.

If that is remotely true, the value of the ocean / bay front housing in Miami just fell through the floor.

Ordinarily the footings for such properties are set on bedrock in which case a rising sea level would have no effect unless the underground salt water eroded the concrete and steel. 

They may well find a car at the bottom of the rubble severed a corner pillar.
Amazing how thyey think the sea level rises there and nowhere else measurable.

It is rising measurably everywhere. The rising sea levels probably made this happen sooner than it already would have. The sea water intrusion was obviously part of the reason for the concrete deterioration and higher sea level = more sea water intrusion. Welcome to logic 101
A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth - Albert Einstein, 1901

Offline red viking

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2021, 09:54:24 AM »
...and it contributes to sinkholes.
A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth - Albert Einstein, 1901

Offline mspart

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2021, 02:05:42 PM »
Good thing the oceans have never done that before. 

mspart

Offline Bob H.

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2021, 04:08:05 PM »
Already heard it is because of climate change and rising sea levels.  They never miss an opportunity regardless of how absurd it is.

If that is remotely true, the value of the ocean / bay front housing in Miami just fell through the floor.

Ordinarily the footings for such properties are set on bedrock in which case a rising sea level would have no effect unless the underground salt water eroded the concrete and steel. 

They may well find a car at the bottom of the rubble severed a corner pillar.
Amazing how thyey think the sea level rises there and nowhere else measurable.

It is rising measurably everywhere. The rising sea levels probably made this happen sooner than it already would have. The sea water intrusion was obviously part of the reason for the concrete deterioration and higher sea level = more sea water intrusion. Welcome to logic 101

It shouldn't have been an issue if they used the proper concrete.

Offline Bob H.

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2021, 04:11:15 PM »
...and it contributes to sinkholes.

Nope, unless you mean that climate change causes more droughts followed by heavy rainfall.

I'd have to check (and I'm too lazy to right now), but I don't think Miami-Dade County is in a Karst area. 

Offline red viking

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2021, 04:59:13 PM »
...and it contributes to sinkholes.

Nope, unless you mean that climate change causes more droughts followed by heavy rainfall.

I'd have to check (and I'm too lazy to right now), but I don't think Miami-Dade County is in a Karst area.

"Karstness" comes in degrees. It isn't as if you are either karst or not. There is some subjectivity to it. As long as you have limestone underlying you there is a chance for sinkholes. Miami definitely isn't a hotspot for sinkholes but they can happen there and I thought I heard something about that. At least some people have brought that forth as a potential contributing factor. I agree that the main issue was probably the saltwater (and rising sea levels definitely exacerbates) damaging the concrete and rebar.
A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth - Albert Einstein, 1901

Offline RYou

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Re: Miami Condo Collapse
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2021, 10:18:58 PM »
The recent engineering report criticized inadequate drainage of the ground parking deck.  It's salty atmosphere and more likely it was water accumulation around the pillars due yo poor drainage rather than rising groundwater.. if it was rising ground water due to the rising sea level, every building along the Miami waterfront would be in jeopardy.