Poll

Can socialism and personal freedom coexist?

Yes
5 (33.3%)
No
10 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Voting closed: August 22, 2009, 01:36:01 PM

Author Topic: Socialism and personal freedoms  (Read 4189 times)

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2009, 08:24:23 AM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
Your weak comeback alone proves my point, Carry on with your asinine comments.

Seriously now V, you are completely losing it.  Is there anything I can do to help?  My lord you are going off the deep end!
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2009, 08:25:48 AM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
Your weak comeback alone proves my point, Carry on with your asinine comments.

I simply asked you to provide one example of me being a hypocrit, and this is the best you can do.  Come on now lets be truthful about who has the weak comeback here!
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline Viratas

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2009, 08:47:28 AM »
Quote
Actually, it was the Bush administration that was responsible for the Patriot Act.

After you said this

Quote
Jimmy are you sooo ignorant of how government works that you do not realize that Presidents do not make acts or eliminate acts that is done by congress.

But you are so clueless as to think that a Presidential Admin makes law? Welcome to Civics 101 according to Sparky..

I am stamping your comments on this thread as:

Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"When it’s over, I’ll look up and see what remains. If there are any bridges, I’ll cross them when I get there."

Offline The Du

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2009, 08:53:24 AM »
i know this isn't the arena that you guys are intending to discuss but...

on a small scale i think you could definitely retain person freedoms in a socialist environment, and as an example, i think you can look at small 'collectives' or 'alternative communities'

i think you guys are talking about more of a large scale society or socialism as a economic system across a whole nation, but as an example, i think you could look at these sitautions as a microcosm of how they 'could' work.
...talking to myself cause im the only one worth consulting...

Offline Jimmy the Gent

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2009, 09:51:08 AM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
Quote
Actually, it was the Bush administration that was responsible for the Patriot Act.

After you said this

Quote
Jimmy are you sooo ignorant of how government works that you do not realize that Presidents do not make acts or eliminate acts that is done by congress.

But you are so clueless as to think that a Presidential Admin makes law? Welcome to Civics 101 according to Sparky..

I am stamping your comments on this thread as:


HAHA nice PWNAGE on Sparky.  He is chasing his tail... is it congress or administrations that make and eliminate Acts Sparky.

He wants his cake
"Jimmy, I understand your point and technically your logic is sound."  --Viratas

Offline ac1998

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2009, 10:23:43 AM »
The faults with the Patriot Act fall pretty equally on both parties.  There is no doubt that it was a proposal of the Bush Administration and borught to the floor by a republican controlled congress, but the bill had nearly unanimous bi-partisan support.  The Dems in the senate could have blocked passage but they went along.  Only one senator voted against the Act, Democrat Russ Feingold.  It passed the Senate 98-1.

Offline Viratas

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2009, 10:25:43 AM »
Quote from: "ac1998"
The faults with the Patriot Act fall pretty equally on both parties.  There is no doubt that it was a proposal of the Bush Administration and borught to the floor by a republican controlled congress, but the bill had nearly unanimous bi-partisan support.  The Dems in the senate could have blocked passage but they went along.  Only one senator voted against the Act, Democrat Russ Feingold.  It passed the Senate 98-1.

Thanks AC and well stated.
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"When it’s over, I’ll look up and see what remains. If there are any bridges, I’ll cross them when I get there."

Offline ViseGrip

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2009, 10:54:33 AM »
Quote from: "The Du"
i know this isn't the arena that you guys are intending to discuss but...

on a small scale i think you could definitely retain person freedoms in a socialist environment, and as an example, i think you can look at small 'collectives' or 'alternative communities'

i think you guys are talking about more of a large scale society or socialism as a economic system across a whole nation, but as an example, i think you could look at these sitautions as a microcosm of how they 'could' work.

In theory I would agree with you. But in practice, socialist governments have used their powers to restrict or control personal freedoms without exception.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all that want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics" -Thomas Sowell

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 09:32:17 PM »
Quote from: "Jimmy the Gent"
Quote from: "Viratas"
Quote
Actually, it was the Bush administration that was responsible for the Patriot Act.

After you said this

Quote
Jimmy are you sooo ignorant of how government works that you do not realize that Presidents do not make acts or eliminate acts that is done by congress.

But you are so clueless as to think that a Presidential Admin makes law? Welcome to Civics 101 according to Sparky..

I am stamping your comments on this thread as:


HAHA nice PWNAGE on Sparky.  He is chasing his tail... is it congress or administrations that make and eliminate Acts Sparky.

He wants his cake


Jimmy, another political science lesson for you.  I repeat myself, but only congress makes and eliminates laws.  However, adminsitration, lobbying groups and/or congress itself could be responsible for the acts because they initiate it or promote it, but they do not make or eliminate the laws.  You have to look at who promoted its passage from day one as to who is res responsible for it.  Of courst that is probably a little more honesty than most of you can take, being the right wingers and favoring dishonesty as you all do.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline Viratas

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2009, 09:44:36 PM »
Does congress have to vote it up or down? Yes or No answer please!
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"When it’s over, I’ll look up and see what remains. If there are any bridges, I’ll cross them when I get there."

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2009, 09:49:09 PM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
Quote from: "ac1998"
The faults with the Patriot Act fall pretty equally on both parties.  There is no doubt that it was a proposal of the Bush Administration and borught to the floor by a republican controlled congress, but the bill had nearly unanimous bi-partisan support.  The Dems in the senate could have blocked passage but they went along.  Only one senator voted against the Act, Democrat Russ Feingold.  It passed the Senate 98-1.

Thanks AC and well stated.

I will not deny that the senators and congressmen who should have known better than to bow to the will of the adnministration and the frightened sheep of the public listening to the adminstrations lies bare some of the responsibility as well.  At the time of passage I told everyone that it brought to mind the Benjamin Franklin quote about those giving up liberties for security deserve neither the liberties or the security.  Of course almost all of you disagreed with me.  Surprise surpirse!
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2009, 09:56:23 PM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
Does congress have to vote it up or down? Yes or No answer please!


Of course they do V, I have never said they did not.  Unfortunately they sometimes bow to will of an evil dishonest adminstration and the whims of the US public instead of good judgement.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2009, 09:58:36 PM »
.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline Viratas

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2009, 10:00:17 PM »
Simple Yes or No was all that was asked. As we tell our children "No if, ands or buts"
Aequitas - Veritas (is Latin)
Cóir - Fírinne
Justice - Truth

"When it’s over, I’ll look up and see what remains. If there are any bridges, I’ll cross them when I get there."

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Socialism and personal freedoms
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2009, 10:10:07 PM »
Quote from: "Viratas"
Simple Yes or No was all that was asked. As we tell our children "No if, ands or buts"


I answered it accurately clearly and unequivocally for any intelligent communicant.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY