Poll

Is being gay a choice?

yes
12 (48%)
no
11 (44%)
undecided
2 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: December 17, 2009, 05:52:15 PM

Author Topic: Homosexuality  (Read 7361 times)

Offline brycemus

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2010, 12:08:34 PM »
Quote from: "coachsparky"
For one of the very very few times Tight_a$$ has actually stated something correctly.  I definitely believe that anyone who believes someone would actually choose to be one of the most discriminated minorities in the US, has a very very very low IQ.  Their intelligence is about as rock bottom as a person can get.

I don't understand how someone who believes in biological evolution could possibly think that homosexuality is not a choice.  You're saying that they have something misfiring that makes them choose to be homosexual...but that's an evolutionary dead end.  It would die out.

And how do your rationalize the historical context of homosexuality.  Was everyone in Thebes messed up in the head?  The women of Lesbos?  The Romans in their decadence?  Your argument you say is based on "Fact" but it isn't.  You're going purely on conjecture.
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Offline coachsparky

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2010, 05:33:19 PM »
Quote from: "brycemus"
Quote from: "coachsparky"
For one of the very very few times Tight_a$$ has actually stated something correctly.  I definitely believe that anyone who believes someone would actually choose to be one of the most discriminated minorities in the US, has a very very very low IQ.  Their intelligence is about as rock bottom as a person can get.

I don't understand how someone who believes in biological evolution could possibly think that homosexuality is not a choice.  You're saying that they have something misfiring that makes them choose to be homosexual...but that's an evolutionary dead end.  It would die out.

And how do your rationalize the historical context of homosexuality.  Was everyone in Thebes messed up in the head?  The women of Lesbos?  The Romans in their decadence?  Your argument you say is based on "Fact" but it isn't.  You're going purely on conjecture.

I don't understand how an otherwise intelligent person who has lived in the real world could possibly think that anyone would ever choose to be spat on, beat up, ridiculed, denied rights and on and on and on.  The person who believes that is either sans any intelligence at all, or sooooo homophobic that they are willing to completely ignore the facts right before their eyes.  I have never said it is completely genetic, although I do believe there is a genetic component.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 12:44:37 AM by coachsparky »
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Offline Jimmy the Gent

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2010, 05:46:46 PM »
Quote from: "coachsparky"

I have never said it is completely genetic (homosexuality), although I do believe there is a genetic component.


Exactly sparky.  And the same thing can be said for hetersexuality - there are environmental/social factors involved in human sexuality, along with genetic factors.

This seems obvious to me and is a reason why I am discouraged by the Bible thumping portion of the conservative movement.  They truly are knuckledraggers in this regard
"Jimmy, I understand your point and technically your logic is sound."  --Viratas

Offline Jimmy the Gent

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2010, 05:51:14 PM »
.
"Jimmy, I understand your point and technically your logic is sound."  --Viratas

Offline brycemus

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2010, 10:55:09 AM »
and your answer to the fact that homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end and therefore would cease to exist eventually?
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Offline coachsparky

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2010, 05:22:38 PM »
Quote from: "brycemus"
and your answer to the fact that homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end and therefore would cease to exist eventually?

Disagree completely and there are three reasons for my disagreement with that mistaken idea.  First is that it is a combination of nature and nurture that creates the end result of a same gender attraction.  In other word, the first component of a genetic predisposition must be in place and then the necessary social environment seals the fate at an early age if the person is to end up as that.  If the social environment leads to the opposite attraction, the genetic predispostion remains in the gene pool.  The second reason is that many homosexual couples still desire to have genetically connected offspring and find willing surrogates to either impregnate them, or become impregnated by them to propogate and again the genetic information remains in the gene pool.  And finally there are those homosexuals who are soooo afraid of the descrimination that they encounter from the homophobes out there that they lead double lives pretending to be straight that will impregnate or be impregnated by their straight partners and you have the third way that the gene pool keeps the genes that cause a predisposition to be attracted to the same sex.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline brycemus

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2010, 05:35:43 PM »
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "brycemus"
and your answer to the fact that homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end and therefore would cease to exist eventually?

Disagree completely and there are three reasons for my disagreement with that mistaken idea.  First is that it is a combination of nature and nurture that creates the end result of a same gender attraction.  In other word, the first component of a genetic predisposition must be in place and then the necessary social environment seals the fate at an early age if the person is to end up as that.  If the social environment leads to the opposite attraction, the genetic predispostion remains in the gene pool.  The second reason is that many homosexual couples still desire to have genetically connected offspring and find willing surrogates to either impregnate them, or become impregnated by them to propogate and again the genetic information remains in the gene pool.  And finally there are those homosexuals who are soooo afraid of the descrimination that they encounter from the homophobes out there that they lead double lives pretending to be straight that will impregnate or be impregnated by their straight partners and you have the third way that the gene pool keeps the genes that cause a predisposition to be attracted to the same sex.

Wouldn't that create a predisposition in children of homosexuals to either be homosexual or at the very least pass the gene on to future generations?  In which case wouldn't there be a singular population of genetically related homosexuals?  Keep in my mind my degree is in History not Biology so I'm asking not telling.  And you're saying it's a COMBINATION of nature & nurture.  If it's a combination doesn't that leave an element of choice?  If Nurture has something to do w/ it then it's up to the individual to choose to follow in the path laid out before them right?  Like I said asking not telling.
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Offline coachsparky

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2010, 05:50:11 PM »
Quote from: "brycemus"
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "brycemus"
and your answer to the fact that homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end and therefore would cease to exist eventually?

Disagree completely and there are three reasons for my disagreement with that mistaken idea.  First is that it is a combination of nature and nurture that creates the end result of a same gender attraction.  In other word, the first component of a genetic predisposition must be in place and then the necessary social environment seals the fate at an early age if the person is to end up as that.  If the social environment leads to the opposite attraction, the genetic predispostion remains in the gene pool.  The second reason is that many homosexual couples still desire to have genetically connected offspring and find willing surrogates to either impregnate them, or become impregnated by them to propogate and again the genetic information remains in the gene pool.  And finally there are those homosexuals who are soooo afraid of the descrimination that they encounter from the homophobes out there that they lead double lives pretending to be straight that will impregnate or be impregnated by their straight partners and you have the third way that the gene pool keeps the genes that cause a predisposition to be attracted to the same sex.

Wouldn't that create a predisposition in children of homosexuals to either be homosexual or at the very least pass the gene on to future generations?  In which case wouldn't there be a singular population of genetically related homosexuals?  Keep in my mind my degree is in History not Biology so I'm asking not telling.  And you're saying it's a COMBINATION of nature & nurture.  If it's a combination doesn't that leave an element of choice?  If Nurture has something to do w/ it then it's up to the individual to choose to follow in the path laid out before them right?  Like I said asking not telling.

To the first question no.  Because the genes could only be passed by contact with the opposite sex who would most likely not have that gene so making each offspring at best a 50/50 chance of passing the gene.  I will spend more time on the passing of traits later when I have time.  On the second, no there is no choice even if it is 100 percent nurture.  Once it is ingrained in a person to be attracted to the same or the opposite gender it is a permanent wiring and there remains no choice.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline Cougar1

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2010, 08:05:42 AM »
Sparky, as usual, you are speaking dogmatically about something you have no proof of.
“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.”

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Offline coachsparky

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2010, 08:47:50 AM »
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Sparky, as usual, you are speaking dogmatically about something you have no proof of.

Wrong cougar, I have 50 years of life experience.  That is all one really needs to understand human nature and to have complete and irrefutable proof positive that it is asinine to actually make the false claim that homosexuality is a choice.  Someone has to be completely ignorant to think that.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline ctc

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2010, 09:32:00 AM »
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Sparky, as usual, you are speaking dogmatically about something you have no proof of.
He is consistent.   :lol:
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline ctc

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2010, 09:33:10 AM »
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Sparky, as usual, you are speaking dogmatically about something you have no proof of.

Wrong cougar, I have 50 years of life experience.  That is all one really needs to understand human nature and to have complete and irrefutable proof positive that it is asinine to actually make the false claim that homosexuality is a choice.  Someone has to be completely ignorant to think that.
And all of the rest of us on here must only be 3 years old.   :D
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2010, 12:45:51 PM »
Quote from: "ctc"
Quote from: "coachsparky"
Quote from: "Cougar1"
Sparky, as usual, you are speaking dogmatically about something you have no proof of.

Wrong cougar, I have 50 years of life experience.  That is all one really needs to understand human nature and to have complete and irrefutable proof positive that it is asinine to actually make the false claim that homosexuality is a choice.  Someone has to be completely ignorant to think that.
And all of the rest of us on here must only be 3 years old.   :D

To seriously think people would choose to be discrimated against the way gays are you act like you only have a 3 year olds understanding of human nature. :roll:
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY

Offline ctc

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2010, 09:17:53 AM »
Sparkillian logic at its finest.   :D
"We can state with conviction, therefore, that a man's support for absolute government is in direct proportion to the contempt he feels for his country" - Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline coachsparky

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Re: Homosexuality
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2010, 11:28:19 AM »
Quote from: "ctc"
Sparkillian logic at its finest.   :D

Thanks ctc, it is understood by all that you have a complete lack of logical thinking capability and you are completely in the dark as to true human nature, so I do my best to fill in on your obvious gaps.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;  the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

Bigotry disguised as religious liberty is still BIGOTRY